Is a RH kit hard to make?

Joe · Post by **Joe** » Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:06 pm

Hi all, just a quick question to satisfy my thoughts, is a roundhouse classic kit (like a katie or billy) hard to make? or does it sort of "click into place"? i wont attempt one for a long time yet but just wondered as i have seen a lot of RH kit built locos recently
cheers
Joe

mikewakefielduk@btinterne · Post by **mikewakefielduk@btinterne** » Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:30 pm

Its easy enough but you have to follow the instructions very carefully. They're rather wordy and could do with a few more diagrams in my view.

Keith S · Post by **Keith S** » Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:34 pm

No, it's great. The hardest part is painting.

It's not like one of those things that's SO easy you don't feel as though you accomplished anything

But it's not one of those things that you need special tools for either. I would classify it as being no more difficult than a Brandbright coach kit, in fact in some ways it's easier because you don't need to do any sanding or glue-ing!

I found the instructions excellent. But then I'm a wordy person myself.

It's basically all nuts-and-bolts. The valve-gear is a little fiddly and like I said, painting is a chore, but other than that you can basically assemble the engine in front of the TV on a coffee-table in the lounge with the supplied spanners and a pair of needle-files and pliers. (and a screwdriver for all the cheese-head bolts)

I can guarantee two things:

1) you can do it, and
2) you will be very proud of the resulting engine and
3) you will save a couple of hundred monetary units by doing it yourself
4) Roundhouse loves to help kit-builders with advice. They don't treat you as if you're trying to bilk them out of the couple of hundred monetary units mentioned above.

Oh wait that was three things!

Here is a link to the thread I posted while I was building mine, if you'd like to see it:

http://gardenrails.myfreeforum.org/view ... 11&start=0

Joe · Post by **Joe** » Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:53 pm

Thanks for info guys, i definitely need to get one now

to be honest though i would rather pay about 720 for the chassi and boiler kits then build a body for it than get a new roundhouse basic and have to spend about 150 pounds extra fitting water gauge, pressure gauge and painting it.

RuneK · Post by **RuneK** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 12:26 am

There is, I hear, available a Haynes manual for building Roundhouse locomotives.

Big Jim · Post by **Big Jim** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:29 am

While I have never built a RH kit from new I have completely dismantled and rebuilt a Billy. The instructions are quite simple to follow and even with a second hand loco I found RH very helpful.

Take a little time and you should have no problems.

mikewakefielduk@btinterne · Post by **mikewakefielduk@btinterne** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:54 am

I'm not sure there's a whole Haynes manual. Their rather good (in my opinion) Garden Railway Manual does include a chapter on building a Lady Anne from a kit, complete with loads of photographs. It certainly helped me when I built a Billy (the locos are built with a fairly similar construction technique).

As for not needing to do any sanding or gluing, that's true, but you do need to do some filing and, if you use a Roundhouse body kit, soft soldering using a gas blow lamp. A vice also helps when bending some of the corners of the body.

If you haven't done so already why not go onto the Roundhouse web site and download the assembly instructions for the appropriate kit and see what you think?

DLRdan · Post by **DLRdan** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 5:55 pm

Not built one myself but heard good thing from others. Unless I am mistaken the body has to be soldered together. Don't dicount the basic locos, as an owner of 3 I can tell you they are superb. If you do want a water gauge however, I don't think any of the RH kit loco can be fitted with one.

mikewakefielduk@btinterne · Post by **mikewakefielduk@btinterne** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:50 pm

Yes the body is soldered together. Its also how Roundhouse make the bodies themselves in their factory. Different manufacturers use various other methods (for example cast brass).

Please correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the boiler design for the Roundhouse kit locos (Fowler, Billy, Katie and Lady Anne) preclude the fitting of a water sight glass. Certainly there's no way one can easily be fitted to my Billy.

Unlike the Accucraft there's no water level check valve either so, when getting the above locos ready to run, you totally fill the boiler with water and then suck out 30cl with the provided syringe. The gas tank is sized so it runs out just before the water does.

However the basic series locos are able to have a sight glass fitted (along with quite a few other extras) which is certainly an advantage if you also fit a goodall valve to top up the water as it should give you an indication of how much to put in. Mind you sight glasses can be awfully unreliable on some locos. If I had the spare cash I would certainly look at a basic series as they do offer an awful lot of loco for the money.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:35 pm

how does the performance compare to a basic though? is a classic more powerful? i know it has proper valve gear

mikewakefielduk@btinterne · Post by **mikewakefielduk@btinterne** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:13 pm

Both the classic and basic have proper slide valves its just that the latter are controlled by slip eccentrics.

DLRdan · Post by **DLRdan** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:34 pm

Both have the same cylinders and the same wheel diameter (mostly) so have the same power. The classic locos have more detail and have reverse using the valve gear instead of being pushed in the chosen direction.

mikewakefielduk@btinterne · Post by **mikewakefielduk@btinterne** » Tue Mar 10, 2015 9:06 am

and of course both Walschaerts and slip-eccentric valve gear are prototypical so neither are just a "toy". Mind you I'm not aware of slip-eccentric being used in a full size loco much newer than Stephenson's Locomotion back in the 1820s or whenever it was, certainly before he built the Rocket.

One thing I don't like about my Billy is a servo completely replaces the reversing lever in the cab if you use radio control. I'd much prefer having both a servo and a lever I could move by hand (like on a Ragleth say). I'm tempted to remove the servo and put the lever back and just radio control the regulator.

Keith S · Post by **Keith S** » Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:42 am

There was a relatively modern locomotive I recall reading about that had three cylinders, two outside the frames and one inside; the inside one had slip-eccentric reversing. Normally of course the eccentric on the middle cylinder would be set to the proper position when the outer cylinders drove it one way to the other. Sometimes however the locomotive would roll back slightly after the valve gear was set, and the middle cylinder wold try to run in the opposite direction from the outer ones.

RuneK · Post by **RuneK** » Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:04 pm

I was wrong, but not totally. There is a manual about garden railways. On amongst others available at Amazon. It covers many topics. One is "constructing a 16mm-gauge live steam engine from a kit". Search on Amazon website: Garden Railway Manual.

mikewakefielduk@btinterne · Post by **mikewakefielduk@btinterne** » Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:26 pm

There was a relatively modern locomotive I recall reading about that had three cylinders, two outside the frames and one inside; the inside one had slip-eccentric reversing. Normally of course the eccentric on the middle cylinder would be set to the proper position when the outer cylinders drove it one way to the other. Sometimes however the locomotive would roll back slightly after the valve gear was set, and the middle cylinder would try to run in the opposite direction from the outer ones.

That's really interesting. I had a Google and found this on Wikepedia: "On the London and North Western Railway, some of the three-cylinder compounds designed by Francis William Webb from 1889 used a slip eccentric to operate the valve of the single low-pressure cylinder. These included the Teutonic, Greater Britain and John Hick classes."

Keith S · Post by **Keith S** » Tue Mar 10, 2015 5:44 pm

I found the engine I was thinking about using this "google" you speak of...

Webb's "Teutonic". If I am reading this correctly, his first compound was one in which the outside, high-pressure cylinders drove the front axle, and the inner, low-pressure one drove the rear. They were not linked by a connecting rod due to some issue connecting the valve-gears. The low-pressure cylinder restricted the exhaust of the high-pressure ones when it was "notched up" at speed, so on the "Teutonic" Webb used a slip-eccentric on the inner cylinder so it would always run in full gear and not restrict exhaust steam from the H.P. cylinders.

The problem, apparently was when the engine backed onto a train. The inner cylinder, which drove its own independent axle, would try to run backwards while the outer HP cylinders would try to run their axle forward resulting in some pretty spectacular wheel-slip.

Fascinating.

mikewakefielduk@btinterne · Post by **mikewakefielduk@btinterne** » Tue Mar 10, 2015 6:27 pm

We seem to been straying rather far off topic Joe, so to get it back on track (ha ha) lets have a go at summarising what people have said:

RH kits are pretty easy to make but complex enough to make you feel you've achieved something. However the kit locos do have a few minor shortcomings (like not being able to fit a sight glass) so you may instead choose to go for one of the Basic series, which, with extras will still be a tad cheaper than a Classic series kit loco. All Roundhouse locos use the same cylinders so both Basic and Classic are pretty powerful.

Is that a fair summary?

Joe · Post by **Joe** » Tue Mar 10, 2015 8:53 pm

Yes thankyou very much

its a shame there's not a basic with a classic valve gear (i know you can get dummy valve gear) but i guess you couldn't call it basic anymore then

Keith S · Post by **Keith S** » Wed Mar 11, 2015 12:01 am

Well, you could always buy a set of real valve-gear from Roundhouse and put it on a basic loco. It would probably be pretty easy.

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Is a RH kit hard to make?

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