Just starting out!

[lnernut]

Hi,
I am just starting to think about outdoor railways, as I have been given preliminary permission from the management to build something outdoors. I think she believes it will keep the mess from invading the house.
I have in the past been modelling OO, but when I recently decided to go back to do some loco building, my wife suggested something outside. I have done some preliminary research, considering scale. I rejected doing an outdoor OO layout as I believe it will get overgrown and generally lost, O gauge was a possibility, but I am currently leaning toward G Scale for a couple of reasons.
Firstly cost…… there are many affordable options in G scale including the Bachmann Thomas & Friends range.
Secondly versatility….. Although it appears there is not a strict scale for G, the Gauge 1 locomotives (10mm) I understand will run on the 45mm track. This means in time I might be able to add something a little more exotic later.
I am at this stage looking into which track to use and looking into whether any track will cope with other traffic without too much damage. I am looking to run a track around the edge of our horse arena, but only if I can find a strong enough method of protecting the track with a crossing at the two points where cars/stock might attempt to cross.
Any thoughts on this aspect would be welcome. I am also looking for some input into whether steel alloy, or brass track is better. I do not know yet which method of power I intend to use on my locos, but I am wanting to leave my options open.

Martin

[philipy]

Hi Martin and welcome.
I can't help much with advice on your particular queries, I'm firmly 16mm on 32mm track myself, but there are plenty of others on here who will no doubt soon pop up with some answers.

[bazzer42]

I can only offer my experiences to date. If you are looking at the bachmann Thomas range they run on 45mm track. This usually brass track and most makes will match up although sometimes with a little ingenuity! Makes include, LB,, Peco, Trainline, Piko Bachmann and Tenmille. It isn't cheap and you can sometimes pick up good quality secondhand for much less than new.
Good advice is to use the biggest curves possible.
I graduated from LGB and Playmobil to live steam where 32mm gauge gives a true narrow gauge 2 foot. I hanker for 32mm but have stuck at 45mm so kids can still use Playmobil with thee play fun attached.
Whatever you choose to do you will have fun and this forum is quite inspirational.

[andymctractor]

I am at this stage looking into which track to use and looking into whether any track will cope with other traffic without too much damage.  I am looking to run a track around the edge of our horse arena, but only if I can find a strong enough method of protecting the track with a crossing at the two points where cars/stock might attempt to cross.

Building track that can be driven over by cars or walked over by horses is an issue that I will never have to face.
For you, it appears, the options appear to be:-
# cover the track crossing when it is not in use. OR
# make the track so strong that it can withstand the non railway traffic over it. OR
# have your railway raised up and the part where the cars/stock pass is a removeable bridge or trellis.
Keeping costs down wil be the main difficulty.

[Peter Butler]

Hi, and welcome to the Forum.
Your intended location sounds interesting to say the least, and I doubt there are many others on here with similar problems to solve.
We don't have horses ourselves although we live in an area where many are kept and bred. They are BIG beasts! They have metal shoes which are almost certainly made of a stronger material than any track you can buy, and they do have a habit of scraping at anything they find unfamiliar. I doubt any protection you can think of would be completely horseproof!
Is there an option two?

[kandnwlr]

I can only recommend having the train running round outside the limits of the paddock (out of harms way), or raised above ground level inside and built in steel (not cheap), though this may be misinterpreted by the horses as a scratching post. Reading some of the contributions by American garden railers, their major problems are sometimes with protecting their layouts from "critters", including large items of wildlife. To paraphrase Woody Allen, the lion may lie down with the locomotive, but the locomotive won´t get much sleep.

[steamie1]

Go for a quality outdoor track without silly tight points or switches as the americans say. Some LGB track has lovely relaxed curves but crazy tight points which limit loco choice. Peco is high nickle scale and the points are ok just some toys need a higher rail. I used Aristocraft 45mm in a school but it had no point system. Worth a look into track types and cost. I have peco 32mm all good and may lay peco 45. The Aristocraft was nice but as I say we had no points. These can be made by the way.

[lnernut]

Thanks for the welcome.

I think I like the idea of covering the track with something like a checkerplate ramp.

I was considering a concrete strip to mimic a railway level crossing, but I am not convinced this would actually be strong enough. We have old tyres filled with rocks around the base of the chicken run and the horses keep moving them around, so I agree they are inquisitive creatures. I don’t think raising the track off the ground is going to work either, as the horses tend to rub on the fences and I have seen the mess they can make.
I am planning on using a banked area between the paddock and the horse arena. We have just installed electric fencing across the edge of the arena, so I might have to run a parallel strand across the bottom.
So it sounds like LGB has suitable curves, but which brand has suitably generous points. I am also trying to get my head around the whole G scale and Gauge 1 track issue. I understand the difference in scale (1:22.5 v 1:32), but if both run 45mm track are the profiles the same and can a G loco run on Peco Gauge 1 track for instance (and vice versa)? I have dreams of starting simple (inexpensive G), but one day being able to afford an Aster Gauge 1 live steam model.

Martin

[kandnwlr]

Thanks for the welcome.

I think I like the idea of covering the track with something like a checkerplate ramp.

I was considering a concrete strip to mimic a railway level crossing, but I am not convinced this would actually be strong enough.  We have old tyres filled with rocks around the base of the chicken run and the horses keep moving them around, so I agree they are inquisitive creatures.  I don’t think raising the track off the ground is going to work either, as the horses tend to rub on the fences and I have seen the mess they can make.
I am planning on using a banked area between the paddock and the horse arena.  We have just installed electric fencing across the edge of the arena, so I might have to run a parallel strand across the bottom.  
So it sounds like LGB has suitable curves, but which brand has suitably generous points.  I am also trying to get my head around the whole G scale and Gauge 1 track issue.  I understand the difference in scale (1:22.5 v 1:32), but if both run 45mm track are the profiles the same and can a G loco run on Peco Gauge 1 track for instance (and vice versa)?  I have dreams of starting simple (inexpensive G), but one day being able to afford an Aster Gauge 1 live steam model.

Martin

Just seen that the neighbours on the other side of the road have set up an electric fence inside the paddock to stop the horses destroying the fence proper. As for track, I can only underline the comments already made about using the broadest curves you can (including points), and if you´re uncertain about where this may end, deliberately using track suitable for both Gauge 1 and G 45mm wheelsets.

[steamie1]

I would ask the retailers like Track shack GRS etc to advise on the type of track needed to run say a very large Aster mailine loco like A Flying Scotsman. Build it best you can then find toys that run on it otherwise you will waste hundreds of pounds making a toy layout. The problem with most childrens 45mm is the flanges are deep. BUT if the wheel are plastic like playmobile etc they can be sanded down a tad. Invest in relaxed curves good points with shallow exits and focus on the end goal. I have always built on concrete blocks up at belt level, when you sit down on a chair it is at eye level. When you work on it it is easy. It stays level and won't fall down and uses little maintance. If you build on the ground you will have to strim it weekly and get down and remove grass all the time this will get to you in the end. There was an article on scaffold poles and cable tray bolted and then the poles cemeted in. Worth a thought. If you do a wood construction make the legs are two abreast and seal the top deck well. Wood can go wonky later if it is not table like. There is a recycled plastic product for garden railways to check out but is dear. Do aim for the top and work down. Good luck.

[laalratty]

Welcome to the forum. I have a mate with a 45mm line that he has run both G scale trains and Gauge 1 trains (and 16mm if it comes to that). If I remember rightly, he has used Aristocraft and Accucraft track, with suitably wide radius points to allow an Aster Flying Scotsman to run.
As for track for a horse friendly level crossing, I'd think of trying a strong concrete base of some sort, with the track concreted in as much as possible to railhead height (but only to sleeper top height between the rails). I've seen this used where lines cross driveways and a car has to cross.

[lnernut]

Thanks for those thoughts. I think I will try to find a local supplier of the Peco gauge 1 track here in Australia (assuming that it meets the requirements)

I will try for 10' minimum radius. If the points prove difficult I suppose I can maintain a loop where a big loco can continue straight. I understand Peco have flexi track similar to their OO.

I am also considering an alternative 10m x 20m area between two sections of driveway. It's a bit small, and a bit steep, but has the advantage of no vehicles and no animals.

I might take some photos later.

Plenty of food for thought. Thanks.

[lnernut]

I have come to a momentous decision. I am going to initially run track around two sides of the horse arena and as finances permit extend across the end with the through traffic area. The two places crossed by cars will have the track built on a strong concrete foundation with a ramp.

The first choice is a Bachmann Emily with coaches. I will also get the Smallbrook Studios detailing kit for £36 and try to make it look as much like a Stirling Single in GNR livery as possible.

Martin

[lnernut]

I have put pen to paper for my first draft of a layout plan.



The 2 loops have a minimum radius of approximately 10ft. The run is relatively flat with the exception of the passing loop etc at the bottom of the photo. This drops down the bank running from right to left and then climbs back up slightly.

The Spur line at the top is planned to run into the shed for storage.

The initial plan is for the area between the two loops with the remainder added at a later date.

Martin

[andymctractor]

I have put pen to paper for my first draft of a layout plan.

I'm jealous of the ground area you have to build on but you might need a lot of buddies or machinery to get the job done.
Good luck.

[steamie1]

Cor! Go for it!

[laalratty]

Looks like a good layout, two return loops is always a good nice to have to let you run whichever way you want, and make for a bit of variety. The amount of space available is certainly impressive, sure you don't want to go for a ride on line instead?!

[jim@NAL]

wow that's biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiggggggggggggggggggggg good luck keep up all updated

[lnernut]

There are certainly some issues left to sort out. I am yet to obtain permission from the management to encroach onto the arena with the loop at the bottom. I reckon if you don’t aim for the moon, you’re not even going to hit the verandah post.
With respect to the machinery comment, it is in the medium term plan to purchase a Massey Ferguson TEA20 tractor at some stage, or the alternative is to hire a dingo, but either way it will need to be built in sections just for purely financial reasons. The base is a mixture of solid clay and compacted rubble, so it should be suitable base from which to start.
A ride on….. hmmmm…… NO, get the behind me Satan! I don’t need more big ideas. The 250m around the horse arena would not be big enough for a worthwhile ride-on, and I could see a fight brewing if I said I wanted to lay more than a couple of km of 5 inch gauge track through the horse paddock and around the front as well. I think G with later possible foray into Gauge 1 makes this a more versatile and cost effective option. I can start simple and expand my fleet later. If I can pick up G locos for a couple of hundred dollars, while 5” gauge are several thousand.
I also have a heap of RC cars available for donors from my days racing nitro buggies. This should provide a cheap source of controllers, servos and receivers to enable RC control.

Martin

[andymctractor]

 I don’t need more big ideas.  

Be careful, the Fergie could become a man's toy and distract you from your plans.