Building Brandbright coaches

[ikcdab]

Have been having a great time building Brandbright pannelled bogie coaches. These are great kits, laser cut to sub-millimetre accuracy. I have been following the excellent guide at http://www.gardenrailwayclub.com/carria ... nstruction
The stage I am now at is sticking the painted panel overlay to the painted side. See picture below.


Click to see full size image
The upper piece is the painted side - painted with Halfords car spray paint, rubbed down and now at a mirror-like finish.
The second piece is the panelling overlay and bottom is how it should look when one is stuck to the other.
I originally used resin W and was very pleased until i picked it up after 24 hrs and the panelling fell off.
So now, question is, what glue to use?
Resin W and craft spray adhesive have been useless, my remaining options are:
superglue (though not sure about using it on absorbent wood)
gorilla glue - an experiment proved workable
araldite applied carefully - poss using a syringe.
The glue cannot be too runny or it will squeeze out and be a swine to clean off, not can it be too gloopy or i wont be able to spread it.
My experiment involved painting a spare piece of timber and then sticking on an offcut of thin ply. Not quite the same as the actual job as the paint was only left 24hrs and only one coat of paint, but when i tried to wrench off the thin ply stuck with gorilla glue, it pulled the paint off. So looks like that stuck well to the paint. Its the glue that needs one surface to be damp to work. I hope that the paint on the coach side, having been left longer to harden and had more coats and rubbing down wil be tougher...

Any advice?

[steamie1]

I would use Canopy glue by Zap. It is like PVA and dries clear but always remains very flexible. It is designed for ABS and Balsa wood


http://www.f1hobbies.com/shop.php?id=57 ... tAodQHAAxg

[ikcdab]

Thanks for the suggestion. I think the problem is having a glue that will bond to a shiny painted surface - the pva resin w i used just fell off. Perhaps because its water based. So not convinced that another pva will do the trick?

[steamie1]

It is only like PVA to look at think silicone. I glue canopies that end up doing 200mph through the sky!

[steamie1]

There is one other thing to do. That is with a sharp fine pencil trace the out line of the wood on the plastic. Then where you can rough up the plastic with a fiber pen etc. Use slow set 30min epoxy. The longer the set the more flexible this is. Quite a bit of work mind. but would be strong. Don't be tempted to use the 30 min epoxy if you don't rough up the contact point. This is essential.
There is also gorilla cyano that is semi flexible whic is used in the USA a lot but it is hard to get localy.

By the way if you use Canopy glue it takes 24hrs to dry.

[Keith S]

I am starting one of these coaches too! I've just glued on the solebars, and now I think it would be best to seal the grain on ALL the parts before proceeding, except the bits inside that I intend to leave in a natural wood finish. I'm excited about it but am going slowly because it looks like the painting and varnishing are going to be pretty critical and need to be done before assembly.

Do you have anything like the white "Weldbond" glue in England? That's what I'm using. I find superglue to be a bit unreliable. "Weldbond" sets fairly quickly, but it's mostly like a plain old carpenter's glue. I have used gorilla glue on my full-size boat and dislike how it foams and expands when it seeps out of a joint. Things need to be clamped for it to work properly I think. Could be I didn't use it correctly.

Good luck with the coach. You're a little ahead of me so I will be looking at your pictures and copying you!

[ikcdab]

Keith, not sure about weldbond, I don't think we have it in UK. Pretty much everything else I have fixed with the resin w PVA and that has worked well. Its just this fixing the framing to the painted side that is the problem. Will post some pics tomorrow.

[ikcdab]

I would use Canopy glue by Zap. It is like PVA and dries clear but always remains very flexible. It is designed for ABS and Balsa wood


http://www.f1hobbies.com/shop.php?id=57 ... tAodQHAAxg

Thanks for the suggestion. Will give it a go.

[ikcdab]

So heres the finished item. Only thing left to do is to add brake pipes, roof ventilators and then number the coach. Although Brandbright supply transfers with numbers, there isnt quite enough of them to number the coaches....

[ikcdab]

So i have rather put the cart before the horse. I have now bought two more of the Brandbright panneled coaches, so i thought i would show a bit more of how i got to where I am.
I didnt take any pics at the start, but there is enough here for you to imagine.
With these coaches, it really does seem much better to paint (or varnish) everything before contruction. In fact, i make up a load of small sub assemblies that i put together at the end.
First off for me is to paint the plain sides. I used two spray undercoats and then three top coats, each lightly rubbed down with 800grit wet and dry between coats. I did the dark green first then masked off to do the cream. Ford Pine and Ford cream from Halfords. This part takes some time, but its well worth taking the effort to try and eliminate the grain of the ply as much as possible.



Next up is to paint the framing. This is quite delicate and on the first coach i snagged it with the wet and dry and snapped in half. Luckily PVA solved the problem. For these two, when rubbing down i clamped the framing to the workmate to hold it firm. Again, three top coats. Here's the basic side with the framing finished. Also see the plastic ducket and the little finishing off piece of framing to add on the end.


And this is what it looks like when assembled together. As i said, i really dont see how you could get such a fine finish if the framing was stuck to the side before painting. Trying to rub down each panel would be very tricky. In fact in this photo, I havent yet stuck the side together - i am stil thinking of the best method. As i mentioned in an earlier posti, i settled on epoxy for the first coach, carefully applied with a cocktail stick to the framing. I think i'll still do it this way, but I am looking to apply the epoxy with a small syringe to avoid oozing out when assembled. Any advice gratefully received. I am avoiding this task at the moment!

[ikcdab]

So once the sides are done, its time to get the rest of the bits out of the box. The ends are painted exactly the same as the sides. The floor is varnished with mahogany satin varnish. All other woodwork is varnished with antique pine. Again, three coats of varnish with a light rubbing down between each coat give a perfect finish. I am very keen on the quick dry water based varnishes with means that three coats can be applied in an evening.
With my method of building, there is an awful lot of painting or gluing then waiting for everything to dry before moving to the next stage. Hence the reason I am building two more coaches together - it seems I can do one as quickly as two. I didn't take pics of the earlier stages, but after endless varnishing and painting, i then glue in the ends and partitions.


These kits are very well designed. the sides have a thin glazing layer in which fits individual window glazing, with an inner side and the the outer sides.
here I have attached both glazing layers and the glue is now dry. These layers are quite thin and careful handling is required.
In the first pic below you can see the small slots for the tabs on the glazing layer.

[ikcdab]

And to the myriad of small items. Here are the compartment inner sides, varnished (3 coats) and the first class compartments with the padded sides painted first class red. Attached to each inner side are the seat supports.


The seats. Each first class and second class set is made up of 5 pieces - a back, base, and three cushions. The cushins each need to have the edges rounded off. 42 seat cushions on these two coaches, each needing two edges rounded off. A clear couple of hours, a good glass of beer and the Archers Omnibus or Kate Bush on the ipod is whats required to get to this stage. Only a subset of the parts is shown here!



And finally for this evening, the parts ready to assemble. Here you can see the seat frames and cushions ready to attach. I will assemble then paint the seats before assembling into the coach.




This evening I spent painting droplight straps (droplight frames, mmm, only 40 of those to paint and sand to fit), and began to glue droplight straps to inner sides.
More pics over the next few evenings.

[TonyW]

I used PVA to stick the overlay panels on, then gave the whole thing a coat of varnish afterwards. I've not had one fall off yet!

[Dannypenguin]

Nice coaches your have yourself there ikcdab

Also Tony that train looks awesome

[TonyW]

Also Tony that train looks awesome

Thanks!

I started with a PS19 and PS20 about 20 years ago, and I've been adding to the set ever since as and when I can find unmade kits of the Mark 1 (cardboard overlays) or Mark 2 (wood overlays) types. They don't turn up very often these days.

The latest laser-cut kits are superb but they do not match what I already have, hence why I've kept with the older type of kit.

I've got a PS16 full brake to build over the winter, and that'll be it for this set I think. Any more would need station platform extensions! Like the shorter PS18 and PS21 shown in the picture, the full brake will be built as a 6-wheeler.

[Dannypenguin]

So would you guys (or anyone else) reccomend the Brandbright coaches? I'm wanting some coaching stock but am not sure who to go with

[TonyW]

I certainly would, but you do need to remember that a lot of extra bits may be needed in addition to the kit. I'm thinking here of wheels, bogies and couplings, and you may also wish to add details such as door window vents, roof ventilators (which all mine are missing...!), brake pipes, safety chains, etc.

[ikcdab]

Thanks!

I've got a PS16 full brake to build over the winter, .

Tony, i think thts the one I sold you on here. I had bought it on ebay but was really wanting the more modern laser cut kit. I have now bought one of those and wil be (like you) building a PS16 over the coming months.

[ikcdab]

So would you guys (or anyone else) reccomend the Brandbright coaches? I'm wanting some coaching stock but am not sure who to go with  :?

Yes, i would definately recomend them, though they are not quick to build and take some care to get a good result - not because the kits arn't made well (which they are - they are excellent kits, made to sub-millimetre accuracy, and beutifully presented and with a great service from Brandbright) but just because there are so many bits which need individual painting and fitting to complete. You will need to buy bogies, wheels, couplings and roof vents.
Door vents i made myself from simple 5mm x 20mm bits of 80 thou plasticard, and I wil also be making roof vents from plastic tube when I get some.
Just now Im thinking how I can make brake pipes - perhaps with 2mm brass wire and I have seen some 2mm black tubing on ebay. Anyone else made their own brake pipes?

[Andrew]

Just now Im thinking how I can make brake pipes  - perhaps with 2mm brass wire and I have seen some 2mm black tubing on ebay. Anyone else made their own brake pipes?

I do:



Mine are made from Wilko garden wire stretched/rolled/bashed straight(ish) and then bent into shape. Before adding the final bend representing the pipe itself I add a lenth of springy curtain wire, can't remember where from but I fear the Wilko stuff is too narrow in diameter. I sometimes add little bits cut from the inside of biros to represent chunkier parts of the real thing and give a bit of extra bulk.

On the one in the picture the pipe is partly attached using the lower end of the pipe (where the wire continues beyond the "hose" and into the carriage end, and partly with a split pin.

It's not quite accurate, and it's not quite chunky enough, BUT, it looks more or less right, you can make prototypical pipe runs, and it's very, very cheap...

Hope that's useful.

Andrew.

PS Saw your name crop up on the WSRA thread on the National Preservation forum - you're a brave man to put your head over that parapet!!!

Nice carriages, by the way!