Ruby Improvements/Tips

[Jerm]

Morning all,

I'm planning/hoping to get Ruby steamed up this coming weekend which way or may not result in the time honoured tradition of head scratching and wonder why the heck it doesn't seem to be running well or incapable of pulling anything or moving under it's own power. My Ruby has always been one that falls more towards the lemon end of the spectrum. I can get her to run just fine up on blocks but it seems that whenever the wheels go on rails I start having issues.

My biggest problem is that it seems to lose power very quickly (this is assuming a properly oiled loco without any leaks, which was the case last time). I will admit that my garden has one steam-unfriendly grade, but I can sometimes see the same behaviour on level ground. I would estimate that I've run it on air for close to fifteen hours now and ran it on blocks under steam for two or three hours.

I've made two modifications based on recommendations from another forum:

i. Converted to inside admission.
ii. Modified the safety valve to blow at ~50 PSI.

Are there any known problem areas for Ruby's that I've not heard of by now (it's possible)? Anyone have any tips on other areas to look into?

[Keith S]

Hey Jerm,

What is it exactly doing/not doing? Is the safety valve lifting (Is it making lots of steam)?

How full are you filling the boiler? I ran my Roundhouse engine the other day and was mystified at how poor the performance was when I realised that as I was re-filling the boiler I had forgotten to withdraw any water. There was very little space for steam so the engine would run weakly for a few feet and stop. Once the boiler had emptied a bit, it was back to its usual cheery self. Just a thought.

[Jerm]

Good questions: The safety valve does lift and yes, I drain the boiler between refilling unless I am pretty darn sure I know how much water is in there (which is rare).

I guess I could have described the problem better. But the gist of it is that once Ruby is on the track and the throttle opened it seems to be rather lacking in power. For example I have had problems getting it simply navigate around a small circle of track set up on the deck without my nudging it along (and yes, cylinders were already primed and cleared). I know the obvious solution to this would seem to be open the throttle more but I find "enough" throttle bleeds off the pressure very quickly.

I am planning on a steam up this weekend. I will take notes and post my observations.

[bessytractor]

I'd be tempted to see if the reverser valve is blowing by at all.

[Charles M]

The early Ruby/Mimi models tended to be fast runners and somewhat finicky . I have a 2nd generation Mimi and it has a personality all of its own. I have fitted it with the 1/2 inch cylinders and a different burner . It has been reset to inside admission and air tuned to run at 2-3 lbs from the compressor. The safety has been altered to lift at 45 lbs . Even with all of the changes it still is not the best performing locomotive I own. I have the new Porter and the Plantation from Accucraft and they are both fine runners . They run completely differently than the Mimi model.

I wish I could figure out what the improvements Accucraft has made that makes the difference between the Mimi and the Porter.

Good luck with the engine.

Charles M

[IrishPeter]

OK, is this a small cylinder Ruby or a large cylinder one?  The large cylinder version has square valve chests and a 'oil drum' cylinders and are the cylinder-valve assembly s painted black.  The older small cylinder variety has a more modern looking cylinder casting which is left unpainted in factory condition.  I have one of each.  

My large cylinder 'Ruby" works like a dream and will plod along with a heavy load - brake van, three carriages (two bogie and one four wheel), two four wheel wagons, and a couple of bogie wagons - just fine with the regulator well open at a scale 15 to 20 mph.  This is with fifty feet of 1 in 24/30 gradient against her.  Conversely, I can just crack the regulator she will will take the same load down the same grade at a scale 20-25 mph just fine, though the braking effect of a couple of curves helps.

The small cylinder one is a different kettle altogether.  It is very difficult to set up, and would rather do a scale 50 mph than a scale 15 mph - when moves at all.  You have to have the reversing valve and the valve gear set up just right for it to perform, and then, like all small cylinder engines without an exhaust regulator, it runs fast.  

How fast?

Well, the paintwork on mine has gravel rash from where I have got it moving and it has gotten airborne in the past, and gone skidding across the yard on its side.  In fact so prone was it to getting airbourne that I thought it was NASA's first attempt at a replacement for the Space Shuttle!  I eventually conquered that propensity by changing it to inside admission, being VERY gentle with the regulator, and when she has a light load using the reverser to strangle the admission of steam to the cylinders.  It was also an indifferent steamer, but it improved greatly after I made sure that the burner was all the way in the firetube.  That said, it is still slower to boil than my large cylinder engine. It is better than when I got it, but it is still an IT.

As a result of my experience with the large cylinder engine, my small cylinder Ruby is 'having the op' just as soon as the necessary parts arrive from Accucraft.  Once that has been done, I am looking forward to her being a docile performer like her large cylinder sister and to 'it' becoming 'she'.  

Peter in AZ

[Keith S]

Good luck with the engine this weekend Jerm. By the way I was referring to the amount of water you take out of the boiler AFTER you fill it, to create a space for steam. For instance, on the Billy, I fill the boiler and then remove 30ml to create an air space at the top of the boiler. On a Ruby that might be more like 10ml. Even then, I find the engine "pauses for breath" a lot less once it has steamed a while. I just wanted to make sure you're not firing the engine with the boiler filled all the way to the top. I don't know how good the instructions are that came with it, this occurs to me to be an easy mistake to make if you're not familiar with steam engines. For all I know you can build a triple-expansion engine out of a sardine can, so I'm sorry if I'm being simplistic.

My Dad has a "Ruby-like" engine (the "Porter" that briefly made an appearance until Accucraft accused the manufacturer of some patent-infringement cheekiness) and it has very small cylinders. It does like to go fast, but it chuffs along fairly reliably. I don't know what its pulling power is like but it was able to shove my roundhouse tender around easily enough.

Hopefully you get it sorted without having to resort to major surgery. On the other hand, the other guys have given some good advice so far.

[IrishPeter]

A couple more thoughts...

I usually put in 85-90ml of water into the boiler, or, just occasionally fill it to the top and take out 30ml, using a syringe.  That leaves sufficient steam space at the top of the boiler so that she does not get too winded early on.  BTW, the only fault my large cylinder 'Ruby' has that I have found is that she boils dry.  

Also remember to empty the water out of the displacement lubricator before filling it with steam oil.  I forgot a couple of times and things tended get a bit sticky.  No damage done though.

With a little bit of care, a small cylinder 'Ruby' performs OK, but it is easily offended.  It took me about three or four nights of fiddling and cursing to get 'It' going in a reasonable manner.  I can usually get "It" to haul two four-wheel wagons and two bogie coaches up the aforementioned 1 in 24/30 grade, but I have to be quick on my feet to catch it when it reaches the level track in the station.  Also, to lug that little lot uphill the safety valve has to be "feathering" (emitting a small amount of steam) if not outright blowing off before I give her full regulator.  Accy's safety valves have the same characteristic as Ramsbottom valves in that they tend to feather rather than outright blow off, thus there is little loss of pressure beyond that necessary to bring the boiler pressure back within the permitted operating pressure.  Down hill runs require me to give her a big handful of regulator leaving the station then shut it down to a crack once she hits the down grade.  I then have to open the reg again when she hits the 1 in 50 up at the bottom of the big hill.

In conclusion I would say that the small cylinder Ruby is a quite a bit less powerful, and requires rather more driver intervention than the larger cylinder type. However, they are generally OK having only the usual faults of small cylinder 45mm gauge locomotives.

Peter in AZ

[Jerm]

Many thanks for the input all. I do have the small cylinder Ruby and an upgrade is on the to-do list, but more towards the end of the list for budgetary reasons.

In the mean time...

I got out and had a run this weekend and on my last tank of Butane I found the answer. The problem is my reversing valve not being positioned correctly. Once I was able to poke and prod it into proper position Ruby shot off and did five complete laps before needing intervention (given the grades I have and the amount of steam already wasted on trial and error, I don't consider that too bad).

'Shot off' is an appropriate term, too. I had four wagons coupled behind her. Once she started moving the first wagon was tossed off within a meter. The second and third didn't hold past the first curve and the last held on until just before a complete circuit. Now, I use just simple, cheap hardware store chain for couplings. And that's a good thing. Because three of them are now unaccounted for.

So, now that I have the problem narrowed down I just need to adjust the valve which is pretty tricky since it's all oiled up. I think a tear down is in order, which is fine as Ruby is due for the annual cleaning and overhaul.

There is a chance that I may have smiled, but there weren't any witnesses.

Thanks all for the help!

[GardenRail]

Morning all,


My biggest problem is that it seems to lose power very quickly (this is assuming a properly oiled loco without any leaks, which was the case last time). I will admit that my garden has one steam-unfriendly grade, but I can sometimes see the same behaviour on level ground. I would estimate that I've run it on air for close to fifteen hours now and ran it on blocks under steam for two or three hours.

15hours on air!! How did you provide oil for the cylinders during this operation????

[bessytractor]

I found the best way of taming my Ruby was to put two channel RC on it. Its now docile as you like though it has a slight blow by on its reverser. This entails a total strip down so I'm leaving it be and tolerating it!

[Jerm]

15hours on air!! How did you provide oil for the cylinders during this operation????

15 hours off and on over the course of a month.

[IrishPeter]

The bits arrived today for doing a cylinder transplant on "It" today. I will let you know how it goes.

Peter in AZ

[GardenRail]

15hours on air!! How did you provide oil for the cylinders during this operation????

15 hours off and on over the course of a month.

Yes but the lubricator won't work on air.

[Jerm]

15hours on air!! How did you provide oil for the cylinders during this operation????

15 hours off and on over the course of a month.

Yes but the lubricator won't work on air.

15 hours off and on over the course of a month WITH frequent oiling breaks.

[IrishPeter]

The only snag I have hit with the cylinder transplant on the 'Ruby' is that I cannot find the right size Allen Key to detach the piston rods from the con rods.  1.5mm is way too big - that's the size needed for resetting the eccentrics - and .050" is slightly too big.  Those are the two smallest sizes I can get here in Arizona.  I've even rung Accy in California (I hate the telephone!) to try and find out, but the parts guy is on vacation.  Checkmate!

So what size is that sucker?

Peter in AZ

[Jerm]

Curious. If I recall that should be the same size as one or the other. I don't remember the sizing off hand, but one of the two keys supplied originally by Accucraft fit.

[GTB]

1.5mm is way too big - that's the size needed for resetting the eccentrics - and .050" is slightly too big.

The screws are presumably metric and the next smallest size metric hex key after 1.5 mm, is 1.25 mm, which works out to approx 49 thous. The next size after that is 1 mm, then 0.9 mm and they stop at 0.7 mm.

The Unbrako Metric Hex Key Set I bought recently went down to 1.25 mm, but it wasn't easy to find here in Oz. All the ones I looked at in hardware shops stopped at 1.5 mm.

Graeme

[Sir haydn]

0.8mm is what your after

http://www.track-shack.com/acatalog/Liv ... Items.html

[GTB]

0.8mm is what your after

Good grief, as Charlie Brown would say......

Not doubting what you say, but what sort of fastener standards do Accucraft use?

An ISO M2.0 set screw has a 0.9 mm socket and the nearest ANSI set screw is a #1 which has a 0.035" socket (0.89 mm).

Graeme