The First Great Project...

[FWLR]

I have been able to read the PDF's and taken screenshots of them, so here they are.

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I see that it's going to be a brilliant line this in my imagination anyway, but we all have different ideas on things don't we. You are lucky that the management is allowing you to use all of the garden , i'am a bit confused though, doesn't take much, is the steam up going to be where the wall already is by the conservatory is, if it is that would be a brilliant place to have it.

Going to be following your build on this and someday see a loco running on it.

[Petersfield]

Thanks. For some reason my (new) printer decided scans would be PDFs rather than Jpegs. And photo edits in Paint Shop Pro have ended up with rounded corners...

In terms of using all the garden ... I am management, so that makes things much easier!

Yes, the steam up/cool down facilities are to be by the conservatory. The wall will be higher and there will be some paving slabs/hardstanding on top, so locos and associated bits can be stood on top as well as in the two sidings. The sketch (first of those above and top left as you view it on screen) shows my first thought was going to be a simpler arrangement with a kick back siding but on consideration, I thought a loop and two sidings off would be safer, more convenient and give more operational flexibility and interest. So I did the [inset] sketch immediately below and this is what I am now planning (as per the third screenshotted image, giving some dimensions).

There is building work going on at the moment (I am tapping this out to the audio accompaniment of bangs, thuds and comments about the weekend's sport) and part of this is replacing the old patio and altering the levels and drains - some genius had installed the old patio slabs at the same level as the conservatory floor... a flood risk I didn't fancy continuing with. We will see what things turn out like when the dust settles but provisionally I am working on track height here at about 30 inches from [new] ground level. I would have preferred 36 but that would cause height issues further round the circuit. And I have spare sofa bases to use as kneeling cushions. I also hope to take a few of the existing stone bricks out and install a couple of alcoves so items (whether sandwiches, locos or gas bottles) can be kept in the shade. (Crude sketch top right in the third screenshot). Some of that area is in the shade for 90% of the day anyway. When the civils are done, I'll put in a suitable climbing plant at the back against the wall. One option may be to have a partial overhead trellis for this to grow over but we'll see.

Thanks for the interest, I hope we all enjoy the build and fingers crossed it's not too long before we see some movement.

[Petersfield]

Evening all,

Well, the last month or so has been a bit wearing. Quite a lot done round the house and garden. Still lots left to do but we can see the progress, which lifts the spirits. We have a new patio, with chippings rather than slabs. And some proper drainage. Tomorrow should see some loose ends tidied up and then the waterbutts can go back. I've been doing various bits and pieces while the builders and painters have been doing their thing, between us we're making quite a difference. One of the more relevant is the installation of a trapdoor in the garage wall. (Many thanks to ge_rik for the information as to how he built his - very useful). It looks more like a loophole for repelling pirates at the moment but I've got to go down a long way to get the drainage sorted and lay decent foundations for the steaming area.

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I have also been a little distracted with a shunting plank project - all in the name of research you understand....

[Andrew]

Hello!

Sorry, somehow missed this to date, but just wanted to chip in enthusiastically - it all looks very exciting!

The plans look good, and I'm very pleased for you ( if a little jealous) that you've managed to include a line into the garage. On-track storage makes such a difference to actually getting out there and running a train - I had it on my previous line a really miss it...

Looking forward to further progress,

Andrew.

[ge_rik]

......... One of the more relevant is the installation of a trapdoor in the garage wall. (Many thanks to ge_rik for the information as to how he built his - very useful). It looks more like a loophole for repelling pirates at the moment but I've got to go down a long way to get the drainage sorted and lay decent foundations for the steaming area. ...

Thanks for the plug, Simon. Yours looks 100x neater than mine. I blame the strength of my garage brickwork.....

Rik

[philipy]

......... One of the more relevant is the installation of a trapdoor in the garage wall. (Many thanks to ge_rik for the information as to how he built his - very useful). It looks more like a loophole for repelling pirates at the moment but I've got to go down a long way to get the drainage sorted and lay decent foundations for the steaming area. ...

Thanks for the plug, Simon. Yours looks 100x neater than mine. I blame the strength of my garage brickwork.....

Rik

I envy both of you for being able to do this. I've looked at my garage many times to do the same thing, but although the track runs along the outside back wall of the garage at about 2'6" off the ground, sadly, because the garden slopes, that is actually level with the garage floor internally! My poor back would never manage it.

[ge_rik]

......... One of the more relevant is the installation of a trapdoor in the garage wall. (Many thanks to ge_rik for the information as to how he built his - very useful). It looks more like a loophole for repelling pirates at the moment but I've got to go down a long way to get the drainage sorted and lay decent foundations for the steaming area. ...

Thanks for the plug, Simon. Yours looks 100x neater than mine. I blame the strength of my garage brickwork.....

Rik

I envy both of you for being able to do this. I've looked at my garage many times to do the same thing, but although the track runs along the outside back wall of the garage at about 2'6" off the ground, sadly, because the garden slopes, that is actually level with the garage floor internally! My poor back would never manage it.

Ddualt / DHR spiral?

Rik

[philipy]

Ddualt / DHR spiral?

Rik

Imagine the diameter of the spiral! I have thought about a long straight incline, which I think I could do, but not really sure its worth it. The garage is only single skin brickwork and gets incredibly hot in summer and freezing in winter and very damp, so not exactly conducive to stock.

Anyway, enough of me hijacking this thread - my apologies Simon.

[Petersfield]

None needed Philip, it's good to see other PoV and ideas. You have my sympathy about the levels - I don't have back problems (yet?) but would still not like to go down to ground level. I thought 28-30 inches off the floor was cutting it fine. With indoor railways, I did see an article (probably Railway Modeller?) about a vertical style fiddle yard. Scaling it up obviously would be an issue and it would have to be a lift rather than a vertical fiddle yard but I wonder if that might work? (Sort of Anderton boat lift meets Peter Denny cassette fiddle yard)? Though given the temperature variations you mention, the work involved may well not be worth it.

Rik's mentioned Dduallt in jest. Ironically, I did actually wonder about this! It would have made the track level for the steaming bays 36 inches off the ground rather than 28-30. But I looked at what was involved - especially the space needed and the track laying on gradients and curves - and all the other work. Unless anyone knows of some Lilliputian Deviationists?

Thanks Andrew. Yes, it'll be useful not to have to put stock on and off the track and it's easier to have 10-15 minutes running a couple of circuits or so when everything's ready. I'll just have to unlock the door, put it on the latch and put the 'drawbridge' in place.

[SimonWood]

With indoor railways, I did see an article (probably Railway Modeller?) about a vertical style fiddle yard. Scaling it up obviously would be an issue and it would have to be a lift rather than a vertical fiddle yard but I wonder if that might work? (Sort of Anderton boat lift meets Peter Denny cassette fiddle yard)? Though given the temperature variations you mention, the work involved may well not be worth it.

I've actually done a vertical fiddle (very crudely) in my shed (converted pig sty). It's a cross between shelves and the Denny cassette system. I thought I'd written it up somewhere, but I can't find it, I will dig out some pics. Like I say, it's very crude, and the shelves are heavy, but it beats having to rail and couple up the stock every time.

[philipy]

I did see an article (probably Railway Modeller?) about a vertical style fiddle yard. Scaling it up obviously would be an issue and it would have to be a lift rather than a vertical fiddle yard but I wonder if that might work? (Sort of Anderton boat lift meets Peter Denny cassette fiddle yard)?

Didn't Peter Denny have some sort of vertical system ( made of Meccano I think?) which he called the "Automatic Crispin" to replace his son when he went off to college ( or something)?

Actually, I think I'm mixing up two things, on reflection. The Automatic Chrispin was an early crude computer type gizmo for timetabling and block working, but there was also a Meccano vertical fiddle yard somewhere which I also remember from the Toddler way back when.

[SimonWood]

Maybe I don't mean Denny. The cassettes I've used in 4mm scale were relatively simple, something like this albeit with bulldog clips rather than the nifty PCB arrangement, an excellent compact system in my view, but I don't have the (horizontal) space to do it in 16mm...

[Andrew]

Actually, I think I'm mixing up two things, on reflection. The Automatic Chrispin was an early crude computer type gizmo for timetabling and block working, but there was also a Meccano vertical fiddle yard somewhere which I also remember from the Toddler way back when.

You're right - Crispin was indeed that gizmo!

I picked up my Dad's old copy of "Buckingham Great Central" the other day - to him, Peter Denny's 4mm line was the pinnacle of railway modelling, surpassed only by Pendon. It struck me how, in a foretaste of things to come, I was always more interested in the chapter on his garden railway!

Sorry, I've hijacked the thread now!

Anyway, back to indoor storage as part of the layout. Not just a time-saver, but risks less damage to stock too, I've found. Partly because I store my stock very unsuitably indeed!

[Petersfield]

I've actually done a vertical fiddle (very crudely) in my shed (converted pig sty). It's a cross between shelves and the Denny cassette system. I thought I'd written it up somewhere, but I can't find it, I will dig out some pics. Like I say, it's very crude, and the shelves are heavy, but it beats having to rail and couple up the stock every time.

I'd be interested to see that when you have chance to find/post the photos.

... I picked up my Dad's old copy of "Buckingham Great Central" the other day - to him, Peter Denny's 4mm line was the pinnacle of railway modelling, surpassed only by Pendon. It struck me how, in a foretaste of things to come, I was always more interested in the chapter on his garden railway!

Sorry, I've hijacked the thread now!

Anyway, back to indoor storage as part of the layout. Not just a time-saver, but risks less damage to stock too, I've found. Partly because I store my stock very unsuitably indeed!

An intriguing last sentence Andrew. It's got my imagination running wild!

I was planning to keep locos inside the house but most of the stock in the garage. At least from spring - autumn and maybe with a dehumidifier plugged in. To save space and money on points I was planning a traverser type fiddle yard with some shelving/storage both above and below. Given the weight of the stock and decking, I'm having a hard think about the construction of the traverser. The platform it will rest on I'm not worried about as I have two 4 x 2 timber battens screwed into the wall and a few substantial timber frames (dating from another indoor railway project but sturdy enough to sit on). But the track deck and the means to move it are things I'm pondering. If anyone else has experience of such large traversers, any pointers and feedback would be most welcome.

[Andrew]

An intriguing last sentence Andrew. It's got my imagination running wild!

It's horrible!

My stock lives in (mostly plastic) boxes in the storage area under our house, but that's a) very full, and b) only about 3' high. Getting stuff in there involves me stooping low and avoiding obstacles - inevitably, things up getting broken!

I was planning to keep locos inside the house but most of the stock in the garage. At least from spring - autumn and maybe with a dehumidifier plugged in. To save space and money on points I was planning a traverser type fiddle yard with some shelving/storage both above and below. Given the weight of the stock and decking, I'm having a hard think about the construction of the traverser. The platform it will rest on I'm not worried about as I have two 4 x 2 timber battens screwed into the wall and a few substantial timber frames (dating from another indoor railway project but sturdy enough to sit on). But the track deck and the means to move it are things I'm pondering. If anyone else has experience of such large traversers, any pointers and feedback would be most welcome.

When I consider trying to improve my own storage situation traversers often feature in my thoughts. Smaller scale modellers seem to use shelf runners to move the traverser these days - my thought was to do similar, but with more runners to take the greater weight? Would that work?

Good luck with it,

Andrew.

[philipy]

I have experience of 4mm traverser fiddle yards but not 16mm. We used a very simple system of a piece of 10mil ( I think) ply sliding in suitable size ali channels and simply manually pushed into place as required. Worked very well at exhibitions for many years.
I see no reason in principle why that couldn't be scaled up, except that the weight and the o/a length might be a problem.

We had a discussion about this on here a couple of years ago, Can't remember the thread details right now but I'll see if I can dig it out.

[Petersfield]

It's horrible!

My stock lives in (mostly plastic) boxes in the storage area under our house, but that's a) very full, and b) only about 3' high. Getting stuff in there involves me stooping low and avoiding obstacles - inevitably, things up getting broken!


When I consider trying to improve my own storage situation traversers often feature in my thoughts. Smaller scale modellers seem to use shelf runners to move the traverser these days - my thought was to do similar, but with more runners to take the greater weight? Would that work?

Good luck with it,

Andrew.

Ouch - my sympathies. I hope you can make other arrangements asap. When I was given the SM32 bits from my friend, they came with two boxes with wheels on - a bit like this https://www.plasticboxshop.co.uk/home-s ... s%20(7361) but taller - would they help?

I have experience of 4mm traverser fiddle yards but not 16mm. We used a very simple system of a piece of 10mil ( I think) ply sliding in suitable size ali channels and simply manually pushed into place as required. Worked very well at exhibitions for many years.
I see no reason in principle why that couldn't be scaled up, except that the weight and the o/a length might be a problem.

We had a discussion about this on here a couple of years ago, Can't remember the thread details right now but I'll see if I can dig it out.

I've not built a traverser before but have been 'round the other side' of some exhibition layouts in 2mm & 4mm scales and had a close look at their fiddle yards. Some of them have used shelf runners (as Andrew posted above). I will have to experiment but as the board is likely to be larger and heavier (and carry a greater weight) the drawer runners I've seen so far are probably too small. (As part of the move, I've been building some flatpack furniture recently and have been handling a fair few runners for desks and chests of drawers). Though I will have a look round for things with larger drawers which use larger runners and might be adaptable.

Current thinking is to have either three roads of about five foot lengths or four of four and a bit (maybe 4' 6"?). I have a couple of W&L Pickering coaches which are each a whisker over two feet long - that is probably the driving factor re dimensions from the stock's PoV. A three road option would work better for me in terms of space - the 'corridor' between the fiddle yard and the freezer and large garden tools is a bit narrow with a four road option.

Either way, two options I was considering for moving the track platform (is there a proper term for this?) across the base platform (ditto?) were:
a) use some of the redundant 45mm bogies which I have as wheels - mount timber section on top of the bogies to provide wheel clearance and then attach to the track platform and lay G gauge track on the base platform.

b) something similar but without track and use scooter wheels (or wheels from other children's outdoor toys?) mounted in the track platform bracing.

If you find the thread I'd like to have a read.

[philipy]

If you find the thread I'd like to have a read.

Here you are.
This is the 2nd page I think but worth going back to the beginning!
https://gardenrails.org/forum/viewtopic ... r&start=20

[Petersfield]

Here you are.
This is the 2nd page I think but worth going back to the beginning!
https://gardenrails.org/forum/viewtopic ... r&start=20

Thank you.

[philipy]

Here you are.
This is the 2nd page I think but worth going back to the beginning!
https://gardenrails.org/forum/viewtopic ... r&start=20

Thank you.

My pleasure

I should have added that I did also have a complete train length (i.e approx 3ft long), traverser which used the same principle but with simple straight tracks. On the plus side its simpler and less susceptible to derailments, but on the minus side you can only use half of the front to back dimension for track and if anything does fall off it's a long way down through the open middle!!