PPS/RWM De Winton

Discussion of Live Steam locomotives should be located here
Post Reply
User avatar
Chris Cairns
Driver
Driver
Posts: 2372
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:25 pm
Location: Glasgow, Scotland

PPS/RWM De Winton

Post by Chris Cairns » Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:10 am

One of my recent locomotive purchases is a PPS/RWM De Winton. Although I have the prototype PPS De Winton which is in the long term restoration queue, and a Mamod Brunel which is still waiting to have a modified lubricator fitted, I was intrigued with this PPS/RWM De Winton as it was not a finished running model. The RWM optional boiler cladding is included with this project.

Image

This started out as the vertical boiler being bought from PPS for a Railcar project by the previous owner. The boiler was made by Cheddar Valley Steam. It has 4 bushes on the top (adjustable safety valve, water top up valve, blanking plug & steam outlet). The sight glass fitting has a neat drain valve on the bottom. I had to supply one 'O' ring for the sight glass tube, and a fibre washer for one of the sight glass mountings. The fibre washers for the top fittings were very dry so these have been soaked in oil a couple of times to get them to swell out & seal better. One of the changes Roy Wood made was the use of a banjo bolt fitting for the steam outlet rather than the previous PPS screw-in fitting.

Image

When the Railcar project was cancelled the previous owner bought the remaining parts from RWM Steam to complete this as a De Winton, and subsequently I purchased it to finish this project. It is a unique "one-off" with the equal low height cab side panels

The chassis side frames are inverted elongated 'T' pieces where the oscillating cylinders are mounted on the vertical portion. It has the RWM upgraded cylinders which are mounted with brass spacer blocks for 45mm (see below for gauge changing), and the RWM upgraded reverser valve. Interestingly this uses the same style of block as MSS do (with a slight misalignment of the steam holes on the side as well) but a properly machined rotary valve. I had to open out the steam holes in the chassis side frames, and open out the corresponding holes in the paper gaskets used to mount the reverser valve, spacer blocks & cylinders. The screw used to mount the rotary valve of the reverser is somewhat loose so does not always rotate when you move the reverser so this will either need the use of a tightening bolt or some thread lock. The chassis side frames are mounted using 5 spacers, with the 2 uppermost being screwed to the main chassis by hex head 6BA bolts from above.

Image

The main chassis is 'U' shaped and comparing several photos of these De Winton's it looks like some of the 'U' bends were reversed. There are 2 holes just forward of the boiler to mount the lubricator on one side, and the oil separator tank or optional Summerlands Chuffer condenser/resonator (as this one has fitted). Most of the De Winton's I've seen have the lubricator recessed towards the boiler and the oil separator on the edge of the chassis, but some like this one have those holes reversed. So my lubricator is mounted on the edge of the chassis which requires its pipework re-bent so the globe valve regulator is not sticking out too much. I'll complete this after the boiler has been painted, clad & mounted properly.

There have been two styles of lubricators used by RWM. One is a shorter version of the Roundhouse style lubricator with the protruding drain plug, but the other style as fitted here has a more convenient drain plug fitted to the mounting stud. I've not managed to run this on 45m track yet so limited to running on blocks (the coupling rods are not compatible with my John Prescott rolling road), plus a couple of goes over some carpet tiles, but it does not seem to use much 460 steam oil. So I've been using 220 steam oil instead during the running in which is clearly being used & lubricating.

Image

So the other changes that Roy Wood has introduced is fitting the globe valve regulator prior to the lubricator (PPS did it the other way round which caused problems with oil being sucked back into the boiler by the vacuum when it cools down after use), plus fitting 2 large steel weights to the chassis to improve traction plus to help lower the C of G (the boiler is too tall for 16mm scale).

Image

So on the RWM Steam website it says "De Winton is available in either 32mm or 45mm gauge but is not alterable between the two" but is that strictly correct? Although it is not as easy as changing gauge on a Mamod SL/MSS locomotive, because the chassis side frames are spaced for 32mm wheels (the 45mm wheels fitted here use the same push fit bearing & spacers as Mamod SL/MSS's use) and the cylinders are 32mm ones which are fitted with brass spacers for 45mm, then you can change gauge but there would be a lot of dismantling involved.

The gas tank that came with this project is leaking but I'm hoping I can get it soldered up (there appears to be a lack of solder where the gas pipe screw fitting has been mounted in the turret, so I'm using another gas tank for now). The boiler also needs 2 mounting holes drilled out and the corresponding mounting blocks tapped. I'm impressed with how easily it runs and it is very well controlled on blocks. But as I do not have a decent pair of 32mm push fit bearing wheelsets at present (one axle still on the rebuild 'To Do' list) I'll probably run it in 45mm initially.

Chris Cairns

kandnwlr

Post by kandnwlr » Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:34 am

Glad someone else has one of these. Mine seems to be working (touch wood-clad boiler) well to date. My only worry is that it can be very lively, and as a top-heavy loco this can lead to excitement in tight curves.

User avatar
Chris Cairns
Driver
Driver
Posts: 2372
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:25 pm
Location: Glasgow, Scotland

Post by Chris Cairns » Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:43 pm

kandnwlr wrote:My only worry is that it can be very lively
Now that is somewhat worrying as another RWM De Winton owner posted the same comment on another Forum.

How do you use the reverser valve control - do you put it to full deflection in the desired direction of travel, or to an intermediate position?

I may have the opportunity to run this on 45mm track within the next week hopefully.

Chris Cairns

Simon

Post by Simon » Fri Mar 06, 2015 11:54 am

Looking very good Chris, glad your happy with it.

User avatar
Chris Cairns
Driver
Driver
Posts: 2372
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:25 pm
Location: Glasgow, Scotland

Post by Chris Cairns » Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:25 pm

With too many projects on the go (trying to get some rolling stock finished for running at Peterborough) I've only had time for a few tweaks on this loco.

Painting the buffer castings & coupling hooks red, painted the back of the buffer beam plates black, trimmed one end's handrails down so they do not extend beyond the handrail knobs, drilled 2 mounting holes in the boiler and tapped out 2 corresponding holes in the mounting blocks so boiler is now secured to the chassis. This confirms that the Summerland Chuffer resonator/condenser will be too close to the boiler once the wood cladding is fitted so it will need to be relocated slightly further out on the chassis.

Managed to get a quick run on our Group's 'Drive Thomas the Tank engine' 45mm layout.

<object width="640" height="480"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ij57Uhyr_V0?ve ... ram><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ij57Uhyr_V0?ve ... n_US&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="640" height="480" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>

As you can see that layout is being enhanced with scenery including a tunnel. Fortunately this De Winton just fitted through the tunnel because I've not fitted the chimney yet, but it does mean it will be too tall for this layout, plus the adjacent main live steam layout, so I'll need to look further into re-gauging this loco to 32mm now.

Just sending off an order to Roy Wood for 2 missing fittings, plus a pair of formed rivet detailed buffer beam overlays for pick-up at Peterborough hopefully.

Chris Cairns

User avatar
Chris Cairns
Driver
Driver
Posts: 2372
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:25 pm
Location: Glasgow, Scotland

Post by Chris Cairns » Tue May 19, 2015 9:21 pm

So slowly been working on this loco when time permits.

Handrails all trimmed to length and fitted, rivet detailed buffer beam overlays fitted and mounted using 1 size smaller head 6BA bolts & nuts (still to be painted), resonator/chuffer assembly moved further outboard on the chassis away from the boiler, stained wood floor panel fitted to firebox end, repaired gas tank clad with stained stirrers, coffee filter paper added to gas burner (after clearing a blocked jet) and the ceramic material edges sealed with instant gasket, and chimney fitted to boiler collar.

Image

I purchased this kit of bits in 45mm on the assumption that it could be re-gauged to 32mm. Our 16mm NGM Group attended a Model Railway Show last weekend and initially I was going to run this on blocks on our demonstration table still in 45mm.

Image

However a recent posting from dougrail advising that the RWM Steam spoked wheels were not a direct replacement for Mamod SL/MSS's sent me into a mild panic. My intention was to fit some Mamod 32mm wheels which I'm fitting to replacement axles. However as Doug had posted you need to ream out the Mamod SL/MSS chassis holes to fit those spoked RWM wheels. So I now had the opposite problem with the RWM chassis holes being oversize for the Mamod SL/MSS bearings.

Much that I like them I could not justify buying a new set of 32mm spoked RWM wheels. I did consider fitting new axles to the 45mm ones but a cursory glance at those wheels confirmed they were not just a push fit like the IP Eng ones. So I was left with a set of early Dream Steam steel wheels (probably old IP Eng stock) which I'd removed from a modified SLK1 project because I could not get them to free run.

The RWM De Winton chassis has 5 spacers which offered slightly better alignment options for those troublesome wheels, and after nearly a full day of tweaking this & that I had a very free running chassis. As I had not removed the coupling rods from the 45mm wheels, and they still needed painting up, I decided to run the De Winton as an 0-2-2-0VB.

Image

So I re-assembled the loco but a quick run found that the reverser valve was leaking more than before. This was dismantled again, pipe geometry confirmed or adjusted to be at right angles, lots of steam oil & re-assembled.

Image

I ran this loco on blocks, plus one short run around the portable layout on the Saturday with a noticeable leak from below the 'O' ring retaining plate, plus some leakage forward from the reverser valve itself.

Image

The valve retaining screw still works loose as you cycle the direction back & forth (I try to even out my running in both directions on blocks), so during the preparation for Sunday's running I tightened up that retaining screw again, which reduced the leaks quite a bit.

Just been through it again in more detail today. Looks to me that the 'O' rings are slightly oversize for those chamfered holes, and the spring is the wrong type (the photo above shows it in the position from Sunday's run, and is effectively fully compressed). I do not have any alternative springs so I've fitted another washer below the spring, and for now have just oiled up the 'O' rings. I do not have a suitable threaded nut to use on the end of the retaining screw, so will need to retighten it where necessary (I tried some threadlock which did not hold up to the heat, and I do not want to use my high temperature threadlock in case it causes problems with disassembling later).

Should be running it again on our demonstration table in just over 3 weeks at another model steam weekend event. This should give me time to get the coupling rods painted & refitted.

One problem which I was pointing out to inquisitive visitors last weekend is this model is well oversize for 16mm scale, as can be seen here -

Image

From the right is a BusyBodies Mamod style driver who is a 16mm scale 5' 3" tall, BusyBodies Isambard Brunel who is well over his real height of 5' in 16mm scale (the adjacent Jurassic Models 16mm scale ruler is 6' tall), and a 7/8ths scale clearout model from Modeltown.

Chris Cairns

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 63 guests