Garden Railway Forum

Hi all!

I want to check the gas jet on my RH Palmerston, but the only 2BA spanner I have will barely fit through the rear door, let alone turn once it's there.


Presumably there is a type of spanner that will do the job - can anyone suggest where I can obtain one please? I've got some smaller ones where the end bit ( not sure what that's called?!) is less chunky, and also offset a little, which I think would be better, but I'm not sure what they're called to search for one in the right size.

Many thanks,

Andrew.

I'm no expert on things mechanical, but a 2BA spanner is a 2BA spanner I think its the size of the head you need to worry about? I'm not sure but it looks like yours is a Terrys spanner and I think they used to be part of a cycle repair kit?

If you google "minature 2BA spanner", it throws up loads with narrower heads and thinner shanks, one of them might help.

Not sure how many screws or bolts hold the cab to the chassis but if you were to remove the body you would have alot more room to use that spanner.

My vote is for removing the body as well..

You may get it off with the body in place, but getting it back together (and checking for leaks) will probably be a different matter..

Phil.P

Andrew wrote: Sat Jul 27, 2024 5:34 pm I want to check the gas jet on my RH Palmerston, but the only 2BA spanner I have will barely fit through the rear door, let alone turn once it's there.

I'll add to the chorus. Take the body off........

All you'll achieve poking around through that keyhole on the back of the cab will be chipped paint, scratched bodywork and a new vocabulary you can't use in polite company.


Roundhouse pipe fittings aren't actually BA threads, they are ME threads, mostly 1/4" x 40 ME. The nuts are 5/16" AF (across flats). Since 5/16" is 7.938mm in froggy units, an 8mm metric spanner will be a slightly better fit than a 2BA spanner, in the absence of a 5/16" AF spanner.

Those cheap and nasty pressed BA spanners are what I know as magneto spanners, presumably because they were once sold for fighting the electrics on old British motor bikes. You can still buy them and Roundhouse supply a set with their steam loco chassis kits.

I've got a couple of sets of decent forged BA spanners, as well as a set of small metric spanners for use on models. The ones RH supply are in the bottom of a drawer somewhere, still in the plastic bag. Miniature metric spanner sets are easy to find locally, but the BA sets came from the UK, bought on Ebay I think.

This BA spanner set from RDG Tools is the sort I use, but you need to shop around. The price has tripled since I bought mine and they are at ludicrous prices on Ebay when I had a quick look.

https://www.rdgtools.co.uk/acatalog/Las ... -2680.html

Regards,
Graeme

Thanks for your thoughts everyone, very much appreciated!

I was hoping to avoid removing the body, it looks tricky, but I need to line it at some point, so will perhaps try to combine both tasks - lining will be easier with the body off. It can wait for a while though, I think, particularly as I'm not convinced the gas jet is the problem. I haven't run it for a while, so need to do so again to remind myself of the symptoms, but as I recall I found that the burner would go out several times during a run...

I'll probably do that in the next couple of weeks, then may be back for further advice. I do sometimes question whether I have the right hobby - I'm very happy with the "artistic" side of things, and relatively competent with making stuff in wood and plastic, but am pretty clueless at proper model engineering, so your advice here is truly invaluable!

All the best,

Andrew.

Andrew wrote: Mon Jul 29, 2024 12:44 pm I do sometimes question whether I have the right hobby - I'm very happy with the "artistic" side of things, and relatively competent with making stuff in wood and plastic, but am pretty clueless at proper model engineering,

So, ditch the kettles and go exclusively battery.

philipy wrote: Mon Jul 29, 2024 12:58 pm
So, ditch the kettles and go exclusively battery.

Philip, you wouldn't be suggesting that if you'd seen my ability to melt electrical components with a soldering iron!

It did cross my mind though yesterday, when my trusty RH Little John rescued a struggling steamer's train. Could I build a satisfying layout entirely around RH ready-to-run battery locos???

Andrew wrote: Mon Jul 29, 2024 1:16 pm Could I build a satisfying layout entirely around RH ready-to-run battery locos???

" Other manufacturers are available"

philipy wrote: Mon Jul 29, 2024 1:33 pm

Andrew wrote: Mon Jul 29, 2024 1:16 pm Could I build a satisfying layout entirely around RH ready-to-run battery locos???

" Other manufacturers are available"

Indeed they are! A little outside your timeframe, but I'm sure a cab could be added:
https://www.bootlane.org.uk/product-page/bakewell

Or even!
https://www.bootlane.org.uk/product-page/eternal-star

StuartJ wrote: Mon Jul 29, 2024 2:26 pm

philipy wrote: Mon Jul 29, 2024 1:33 pm

Andrew wrote: Mon Jul 29, 2024 1:16 pm Could I build a satisfying layout entirely around RH ready-to-run battery locos???

" Other manufacturers are available"

Indeed they are! A little outside your timeframe, but I'm sure a cab could be added:
https://www.bootlane.org.uk/product-page/bakewell

Or even!
https://www.bootlane.org.uk/product-page/eternal-star

Beautiful locos, but this bit's the killer:

"Batteries, RC or any electrics (except micro switch) are not included in the kit."

SO much scope to go wrong!

Andrew wrote: Mon Jul 29, 2024 2:39 pm

SO much scope to go wrong!

True... you might not have the right size spanner!!!

Andrew wrote: Mon Jul 29, 2024 2:39 pm

Beautiful locos, but this bit's the killer:

"Batteries, RC or any electrics (except micro switch) are not included in the kit."

SO much scope to go wrong!

Andrew, you might have noticed all my loco stock are R/C battery powered and many are from Boot Lane Works and other similar manufacturers.
Despite the control systems not being provided there are several available, including RC Trains, (Phil.P, Forum member) who is always willing to offer advice and support.
I have no idea at all about how such things work, but if I can fit them I'm sure you can too!

Don't be put off .A quick service will sort out your metal real steam locos . I would worry more about the plastic ones melting in the sun .

They don't need to be in the sun, to change shape..

I don't have experience of the Boot Lane products, but have an early model from another similar source.

This has changed shape, just stored in the dark, in a stack of other models.

I am concerned about the longevity of models, where there is a predominance of 3D printed parts..

Phil.P

Andrew wrote: Mon Jul 29, 2024 2:39 pm

StuartJ wrote: Mon Jul 29, 2024 2:26 pm

philipy wrote: Mon Jul 29, 2024 1:33 pm

Andrew wrote: Mon Jul 29, 2024 1:16 pm Could I build a satisfying layout entirely around RH ready-to-run battery locos???

" Other manufacturers are available"

Indeed they are! A little outside your timeframe, but I'm sure a cab could be added:
https://www.bootlane.org.uk/product-page/bakewell

Or even!
https://www.bootlane.org.uk/product-page/eternal-star

Beautiful locos, but this bit's the killer:

"Batteries, RC or any electrics (except micro switch) are not included in the kit."

SO much scope to go wrong!

Using a LocoRemote the wiring is very simple (click through to Flickr to zoom in):


Boot Lane Works Lilibet by Stuart, on Flickr

• The blue and green tails are soldered to the motor
  The red and black wires are the power feed to the LocoRemote and are soldered to the switch that Boot Lane supply, located in the nearside bunker
  You can just about make out the corresponding red and black wires coming from the battery holder, these are also soldered to the switch
  The switch is only used as a simple on-off, so nothing fancy there
  The connections to the LocoRemote are by plugs (supplied), so you can do all the soldering away from the unit without fear of damage

And that's it! The batteries are household AAA NimH rechargeables from Lidl; there is enough length in the wires to lift up the battery holder and pop them out for recharging, so need to worry about charging circuits.

Happy to assist if required, although my soldering isn't as neat as it used to be!

I see you have had several replies recommending taking the body off.

Word of caution - I've bought a Palmerston off a fellow modeller. He was experiencing problems with his burner going out whilst running, so had to remove the body to get to the burner, etc. to incorporate some mods. He broke the syphon pipe (I'm assuming this is the black pipe on the left side going into the smokebox [blower pipe?] but got a new one from Roundhouse for free (so one assumes this is a common problem when removing the body?).

I'm not getting the loco until we meet up at the Yorkshire Show on Tour at Barrow Hill Roundhouse late next month so cannot show you the mods he has incorporated to improve the burner's performance - they can be difficult to light up and/or go out whilst running. He has drilled two 8mm holes in the cab floor below the burner for more primary air, drilled another cross hole through the burner (again more primary air), and drilled two holes in the burner mounting plate to increase secondary air to the burner.

Chris Cairns

StuartJ wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2024 10:01 am
Happy to assist if required, although my soldering isn't as neat as it used to be!

You should see mine!

Thanks Stuart, very much appreciated!

Chris Cairns wrote: Tue Aug 13, 2024 1:47 am I see you have had several replies recommending taking the body off.

Word of caution - I've bought a Palmerston off a fellow modeller. He was experiencing problems with his burner going out whilst running, so had to remove the body to get to the burner, etc. to incorporate some mods. He broke the syphon pipe (I'm assuming this is the black pipe on the left side going into the smokebox [blower pipe?] but got a new one from Roundhouse for free (so one assumes this is a common problem when removing the body?).

I'm not getting the loco until we meet up at the Yorkshire Show on Tour at Barrow Hill Roundhouse late next month so cannot show you the mods he has incorporated to improve the burner's performance - they can be difficult to light up and/or go out whilst running. He has drilled two 8mm holes in the cab floor below the burner for more primary air, drilled another cross hole through the burner (again more primary air), and drilled two holes in the burner mounting plate to increase secondary air to the burner.

Chris Cairns

Thanks Chris, that's really helpful. That pipe was one of the things concerning me about the idea of removing the body...

Those do sound like the sort of problems I've been having - rather surprising from a firm with the RH's (well deserved) reputation, I guess they were trying to squeeze a lot into a very small space.

I'd be grateful for any pictures you can share of the mods, although, if I go down that route, I'll probably get them done professionally at some point. Holes in the cab floor I'll tackle, but I'm not going to start drilling into anything else!

All the best,

Andrew.