DMU set (was IP motor bogie - any experiences?)

hussra · Post by **hussra** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:31 pm

Anyone tried out the IP motor bogie - http://www.ipengineering.co.uk/page138.html ? I guess it's not going to haul a huge weight, and more than one or two people have had fun with IP gearboxes, gear sets etc. Just wondering about whether it might be worth trying one or two under a pair of the Atlantic observation carriages as a DMU. Or should I run in the opposite direction?

MDLR · Post by **MDLR** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:01 pm

I'd suggest going for two axle drive (if Ivan's got any - otherwise ask again - I've got a link at home) as with the single axle drive, words like "skin", "Rice pudding" and "wouldn't pull" come readily to mind!

Pendo Pilot · Post by **Pendo Pilot** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:42 pm

When I get around to doing similar I will be looking here...>>

http://www.mattharvey.com/esselengineer ... mitstart=6

hussra · Post by **hussra** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:45 pm

Pendo Pilot:60347 wrote:When I get around to doing similar I will be looking here...>>

http://www.mattharvey.com/esselengineer ... mitstart=6

Yes, the thought had occurred to me too - thanks. And to Brian for his disarming honesty re. pulling power (!).

MDLR · Post by **MDLR** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:50 pm

hussra:60348 wrote:Yes, the thought had occurred to me too - thanks. And to Brian for his disarming honesty re. pulling power (!).

I've had to 4-wheel-drive everything for Flagg Fluorspar as they won't get round the corners without! The railbus pair run fine with 2 motors, but the batteries don't last long - particularly recharegeables.

williamfj · Post by **williamfj** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:07 pm

If you want to go for the IP power bogies, save yourself some trouble down the line & buy a set of brass gears before you assemble the bogies.

A multiple unit using IP bogies is something I've thought about, possibly in the style of the NER EMUs, albeit as a DMU.

GTB · Post by **GTB** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 3:43 pm

hussra:60345 wrote:Just wondering about whether it might be worth trying one or two under a pair of the Atlantic observation carriages as a DMU. Or should I run in the opposite direction?

Interesting project, those observation cars have always looked more like a railcar to me.

IP gears are OK in themselves, but meshing them properly without a gearbox is problematic and those power bogies look much the same as the Ezee power unit arrangements. If I was building this project, I'd mill up a simple two axle gearbox and make the bogie sides cosmetic.

You'd need a minimum of two driven axles for the two car unit I'd think. Whether you'd need a power bogie in each car, would depend on your grades and your minimum radius. The power bogie will have much the same tractive effort as one of the Ezee motorized models.

The chain and sprockets for two axle drive are available online from this supplier, if Ivan is still out of stock. http://www.motionco.co.uk/

There's plenty of space in the observation car bodies for a decent battery pack, but you'd need to MU the cars together if you fit a motor bogie in both. No matter which motor bogie you use, make sure the weight of the battery is over the powered bogie for maximum traction and keep everything else as light as you can.

The IP motor is rated for 6V, so I run my railcars with a four cell battery pack and a simple transistor speed control. The single motor will manage a 2 hour run on the test stand from four 900mAH NiMH AAA cells. I've never run them long enough on a track to find out how much grades and curves reduce the run time.

Regards,
Graeme

Steven.T · Post by **Steven.T** » Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:04 pm

I've been considering building something with bogies for a while now, and after my previous experience with I.P.s gears etc if I get round to it I will definitely be going for an Essel bogie set!

Now back to the drawing board...

hussra · Post by **hussra** » Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:22 pm

One observation car arrived in today's post (spreading the cost, no need to buy both at this point), and some MotionCo components. Motor and gears anticipated shortly; not using the IP motor bogie set. Wish me luck...

Steven.T · Post by **Steven.T** » Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:25 pm

Good luck! I look forward to seeing the results!

hussra · Post by **hussra** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:14 pm

The power bogie had its first test run outdoors today, with a temporary lash-up of 2 AAs and a single toggle switch.

The idea has been to reuse as much of the kit-supplied bogie as possible - which basically comes down to wheelsets, bearings and sideframes which are now cosmetic. MFA motor, Hobby gears, frame spacers from Essel.

Here it is in the kitchen getting ready for the off:

With the batteries it weighs 11oz, 9oz without. Plenty of space to add weight. After a few tours around the test line on the patio, it was out with the paperclips to see how the haulage capacity was. Managed quite nicely with 12 axles:

Haven't tried any more yet. Sprockets really need pinning to the axles. Encouraging results so far!

Marquis DeCarabas · Post by **Marquis DeCarabas** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:53 pm

V. good RAH(I); promising too for MU operation - you'll be able to pull more than a couple of 'Red Vans'!

Are you going to tweak the sides so there is a bit of a driving cab/drivers side door affair?

hussra · Post by **hussra** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:40 pm

Marquis DeCarabas:62163 wrote:V. good RAH(I); promising too for MU operation - you'll be able to pull more than a couple of 'Red Vans'!

Yes, the thought of pulling some vans had certainly occurred to me, though (perhaps inevitably) the inspiration was more along the lines of the MPD units on the night time freights on the NCC main line, rather than the red vans on the CDRJC!

Marquis DeCarabas:62163 wrote:Are you going to tweak the sides so there is a bit of a driving cab/drivers side door affair?

Hmmm, haven't finalised body plans yet. One could do a major cut-and-shut job to move the rear door to be instead between the 1st and 2nd windows, next to the cab... yikes.

My initial thought had been to leave the sides as they are, turn "Tag's snacks" into a guard's compartment on one car and engine compartment on the other, and build a bit of a driving compartment in one front corner, accessed from within the car. Seats would be realigned to a more conventional arrangement. To be honest my major concern so far has been to get the motor bogie working. Wasn't sure if I was going to need two, or if one was enough; looks like one of these is plenty, which suits be nicely.

Anyone got any cunning ideas for making a gangway connection between the cars?!

Marquis DeCarabas · Post by **Marquis DeCarabas** » Thu Dec 01, 2011 1:37 am

hussra:62169 wrote:
Anyone got any cunning ideas for making a gangway connection between the cars?!

Yes, slightly time consuming - but worth it in the end.

make yourself a concertina affair out of black plasticard and thickish strips of black gaffer tape. Make sure you use the gaffer tape inside and out.

If you are happy with a square-topped gangway then you can make it up in four separate sections out of plasticard strips gaffertaped down to keep them square - it can be quite nadgery getting the fourth side of the square on, but if you use a judiciously large piece of tape then you can get away with just having it on the outside. Obv. only add the tape when the thing is flat (fully extended..).

It is possible to lay the plasticard out in a strip/rod/strip/rod/strip affair, removing the rods afterwards to give you a bit of a hinge, IYSWIM.

Little magnets to hold the two bellows together?

Black gaffer tape has the right sort of sheen - especially with the fabric reinforcing to look reminiscent of canvas.

hussra · Post by **hussra** » Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:19 am

Cunning - will file away for when that stage is reached...

In the meantime, here is a rather lovely photo of an MPD power car shunting vans at Londonderry Waterside.

Pendo Pilot · Post by **Pendo Pilot** » Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:01 am

Looking rather good there Richard, you've done a lovely job on that bogie. I await to see how the project comes on, I can already see an interest from the CVLR's directors.

hussra · Post by **hussra** » Thu Dec 01, 2011 1:33 pm

Hmmm, musing on the door-rearrangement idea. Out of the box the bits look like this:

It would be possible to rejig it more like this:

But is it worth the hassle, and the fun putting it all back together neatly and concealing the joints?

TheChestnutLine · Post by **TheChestnutLine** » Thu Dec 01, 2011 3:02 pm

I think the latter looks alot better for you project. But it's up to you!

IrishPeter · Post by **IrishPeter** » Thu Dec 01, 2011 3:19 pm

hussra:62177 wrote:Cunning - will file away for when that stage is reached...

In the meantime, here is a rather lovely photo of an MPD power car shunting vans at Londonderry Waterside.

The MPDs had a two stage gearbox which allowed them to run either in what might loosely be call a 'goods setting' where the top speed was around 40 mph, but they could pull 200 tons, or a 'passenger setting' where the max speed was 75mph (honest, gov!) but the trailing load was only about 65 tons. I seem to remember seeing a pic of a pair of them coupled back to back hauling a long line of CIE steel 'covereds' somewhere around Antrim City in the late-1960s.. CIE was still running wagonload freight to/from the Maiden City at that time, and the MPDs provided the grunt. The performed a similar office with lines of Conflats between Belfast York Road and Larne Harbour. They were also to be seen running in passenger mode hauling oe or two of the ubiquitous 'brown vans' on parcels service.

Peter in AZ

spooner · Post by **spooner** » Thu Dec 01, 2011 3:32 pm

I think the rearrange layout better.Have you thought of leaving the door at the rear and moving the over door?

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DMU set (was IP motor bogie - any experiences?)

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