Another engine

INJIN · Post by **INJIN** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:33 pm

Here are a few pix of the other locomotive being built in our workshop at the moment. "Young Luke" is building this 0-4-2 locomotive completely from scratch. Based on "Eric" a design by Brian Wilson from Australlia it will hopefully be running within the next couple of months.

The loco will be "dual fuel", in that it will be convertable in between coal & meths firing. The grate will be detachable & a four wick meths burner can replace it.

The boiler is quite an unusual design. The sides & back of the firebox are "Dry"& not part of the pressure vessel, the crown is however wet & has a couple of stays holding it all together.

I've included a couple of unusual pix of when Luke was silver soldering the firebox, they are quite dramatic I think.

bessytractor · Post by **bessytractor** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:30 pm

funnily enough that's exactly what I had in mind for my up and coming RH coal fired conversion. It looks excellent, well done

INJIN · Post by **INJIN** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 11:53 am

Are you building your own boiler?

I'm considering as my next project fitting a Roundhouse Atlantic with a JVR (John van Riemsdijk) type C boiler, which are used quite extensively by the gauge 1 fraternity. Aster use them on some of their models. I believe it is quite an easy boiler to make as the fire tubes go straight through & part of the the firebox is under the boiler barrel & is dry. This would be meths fired & the water tanks would be built to hold water with a hand pump for replenishment & maybe an axle pump. With a chick feed for the meths you could run it continuously for as long as you liked.

Has anyone on the forum tried this? or similar?

bessytractor · Post by **bessytractor** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:00 pm

INJIN:55642 wrote:Are you building your own boiler?

noooooo, I have a man what can for that :lol:

and very good he is too!

INJIN · Post by **INJIN** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:20 pm

What design of boiler are you getting fitted to your loco? Apart from it being coal fired of course.

bessytractor · Post by **bessytractor** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:32 pm

pretty much the same as what you have designed!

INJIN · Post by **INJIN** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 12:03 pm

bessytractor:55773 wrote:pretty much the same as what you have designed!

Just to put the record straight, I have not designed any of the boilers mentioned here.

What I am asking specifically is, does the coal fired boiler that will end up on your loco have a completely dry firebox? (as per the Brian Wilson design) or a wet sided firebox as per John Shaw's design?, or maybe a firebox with both wet sides & wet back head?

DolwyddelanLightRail · Post by **DolwyddelanLightRail** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 12:56 pm

Good to see his loco is coming on well! Would love to see it when its finished!

bessytractor · Post by **bessytractor** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 1:43 pm

dry firebox!

GTB · Post by **GTB** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 2:44 pm

INJIN:55779 wrote: What I am asking specifically is, does the coal fired boiler that will end up on your loco have a dry firebox? (as per the Brian Wilson design) or a wet sided firebox as per John Shaw's design?, or maybe a firebox with both wet sides & wet back head?

The JVR type C mentioned by Bessietractor is a dry backhead boiler, although a different design to the Brian Wilson one you are using. The JVC C type is shown in parts 9 and 10 here.

http://www.markusneeser.ch/Markus_Neese ... _that.html

You lose a lot of heat out of the backhead and the firebox sides need good insulation in these dry backhead boiler designs, but they are easy to build. Much easier to make in garden scales than a conventional wet back loco boiler, which may be why Brian chose a design similar to the Briggs boiler, which is common here in Aust in the large ng locos on 7 1/4" and upwards.

Brian has also built a gas fired burner that can be easily swapped in to replace the coal fired grate when required. It's not in the book, but was written up in the Nov/Dec 2008 issue of AME.

Regards,
Graeme

INJIN · Post by **INJIN** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 10:37 pm

Thanks for the info,I am always interested to know what other people are doing in the live steam locomotive building world.That link you posted is excellent.

I don't suppose you know if anyone has successfully meths fired the Brian Wilson boiler by any chance?. Young Luke who is building this particular locomotive is not that far away from steaming it with coal or meths. We are both of the opinion that it should not be a problem to meths fire it with a four wick burner arranged in a square configuration to mirror the shape of the firebox in plan view. The boiler has been successfully steam tested on gas to working pressure.

http://www.youtube.com/user/IAMFORCEVFO ... 73DKKNAJeQ

We also did a hydraulic test up to 200psi!!!!!!! the thing didn't budge at all.

My own project at the moment is this Vale of Rheidol 2-6-2 meths fired pot boiler. The firebox is based on a design by Jack Wheldon.

GTB · Post by **GTB** » Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:13 pm

INJIN:55839 wrote: I don't suppose you know if anyone has successfully meths fired the Brian Wilson boiler by any chance?.

I haven't seen anything written about firing a sub-miniature Briggs on metho. I'm not a member of any clubs, so I don't know much of what goes on except what I read. My experience of using metho to fire a boiler is zero.

INJIN:55839 wrote:

We also did a hydraulic test up to 200psi!!!!!!! the thing didn't budge at all.

Brian's design meets the requirements of the Aust. AMBSC Part 3 sub-miniature boiler code.

Some testing to destruction was carried out on various boiler designs before this standard was finalised. The testing report makes interesting reading and is available online here. http://sgcox.site.net.au/ritg/boiler-tests.pdf

Regards,
Graeme

Endless, Nameless · Post by **Endless, Nameless** » Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:36 pm

All a bit advanced for me but the quality of the engineering of the locos in this thread is fantastic- really lovely to see. Please keep the photos coming!

INJIN · Post by **INJIN** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 9:34 am

I don't think that there is a definitive answer to that.

I would say that it depends on how many flues there are on either type of boiler & their diameter. This reduces the waterspace in both cases. Not all coal fired boilers have wet fireboxes so that is another variable. size for size you can't beat a "Pot Boiler" for capacity as all of it's internal space can be made available for water.

Endless, Nameless · Post by **Endless, Nameless** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:24 pm

Given that the firebox takes up a fair amount of what would be water space on a gas fired engine, and that a coal fired boiler needs a larger number of flues to steam effectively (you can have a gas burner in a firebox and a multitube boiler, but it's fair to say this arrangement is unusual), then in normal circumstances (and comparing similarly sized boilers) the answer is "yes" Keith. There are exceptions of course.

GTB · Post by **GTB** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 2:55 pm

Keith&Joanna:55923 wrote:is the water capacity of a coal fired boiler considerably less than that of a gas fired boiler ?

it's comparing apples and oranges, but the short answer is you'd usually find more water in a gas fired boiler, all other things being equal.

The long answer......

Generally you want as much water capacity as you can get in a gas fired boiler, as ultimately that determines run length, although a gas fired loco should be designed so that the gas runs out before the water level gets too low.

Coal fired locos would usually have an axle pump, so they'll keep running all day if you keep the water tank and coal bunker full and keep them moving. The actual water capacity of the boiler doesn't affect run length, as water can be added continuously to keep the level up.

Regards,
Graeme

INJIN · Post by **INJIN** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 6:24 pm

Just as an example of a gas fired loco with an axle pump, Paul Millington made this Russell for his dad with one. This is the exception rather than the rule though. My own Russell has a top up valve & a water gauge & is run on the basis of topping up the gas & water as required, but I digress.............you are of course right Graeme in what you say.

GTB · Post by **GTB** » Sat Jul 09, 2011 3:37 pm

INJIN:55977 wrote:Just as an example of a gas fired loco with an axle pump, Paul Millington made this Russell for his dad with one.

Interesting. You can do that sort of thing when you roll your own. Was that built as a gas fired loco only, or is it convertible to burn coal as well?

Thinking about it, having a water pump on a gas fired loco would give more consistent running, as the boiler would be always more or less full and up to working pressure. A quick gas charge when it runs out and you are off again, not much different to stopping now and again to tend a coal fire.

With my gas fired boiler, refilling the boiler and gas tank means another wait while pressure builds again. About 25% of the running time is sitting around waiting for enough pressure to start off again.......

Regards,
Graeme

INJIN · Post by **INJIN** » Sat Jul 09, 2011 6:48 pm

The Russell Paul built is gas only, it has a conventional single flu with "poker" burner. There is a also a separate top up valve in the dome, "just in case"!

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