Gas quality

[Whosk]

Has anybody had a bad experience with cheaper Butane gas in there engine? I have an Accu Ragleth and have been using Gas Mate cans, they are the large one that go into portable stoves, down here in Oz they about a dollar a can (quite a bit cheaper than other name brands). I have been having lots of problems with lighting up and initial steaming, ie, hard to light, won't stay lit, has a pulsating effect and sometimes the flame is really weak at full gas then roars into life. I am going to clean the system out and use dearer cans for a while and see what difference there is but I was wondering about others experience. I must add that a couple fellow steamers use these cans with no ill effect in their Accu American engines.

Wayne

[Llanwellyn]

Wayne, you get what you pay for. Was it that cheap?
Best stick to branded names. The other thing might be the ring burner on the camping gas cooker may except the cheaper gas but the poker on our locos dont like it.

[andymctractor]

I seem to recollect a bad batch of gas in the UK some time back with a number of people having similar problems with different makes.
I use the stuff from QD (cheap store) but had to buy a new nozzle from Chuffed 2 Bits.
Don't know what help that might be to you guys in Oz.

[GTB]

Has anybody had a bad experience with cheaper Butane gas in there engine?

I use GasMate butane cans from the local Big W and have had no problems with them in my Roundhouse locos.

The replacement burner and tank I built for my Argyle Philadelphia has a smaller jet than the Roundhouse ones and I've had no blockages in that either. That jet type comes with a piece of stainless steel mesh in it to act as a filter, but I've not found any particles in it to date.

A friend also uses the same gas cans with no problem in his Roundhouse based locos and a Regner loco.

The camping stove butane canisters have a short dip tube and not all the gas can be transferred to a loco. tank, so I have a blowtorch that fits these cans and I finish off the cans in that. FWIW that hasn't given any trouble either.

The only foreign body I've ever found in a burner was a small spider that set up house in a Roundhouse burner.

Graeme

[Whosk]

Well a steam up with different gas went well today, but I'm not going to make any judgements yet, i'll have a few more runs and see how it goes.
More exciting is the new RCS radio control I hope to fit in the next few days, l'll report back on both outcomes.

Wayne

[MDLR]

We've had problems in the UK in the past with dirty gas, which was a pain (but we DID all learn how to remove and clean a gas jet very quickly!) A filter made of coffee filter paper, inserted immediately up-stream of the jet was the preferred solution.

[Chris Cairns]

And we (or at least me) still have problems with dirty butane gas. Having previously just used what was available from my local DIY stores I standardised on using Go System butane, which was the preferred gas for some 16mm groups and the brand sold by the Garden Railway traders.

Had lots of problems with the jet blocking on my Regner Lumber Jack including its first visit to another Garden Railway which was a failure due to another blocked jet on start-up.

I've read the Tag Gorton tip of using a piece of coffee filter paper behind the jet but had difficulty finding a supermarket that sells it (got some strange looks from my request at the local Asda Customer Services!). Eventually found that although their Customer Services computer said my local Tesco Extra branch did not stock it, they did indeed sell it.

Fitted some behind the jet on my Lumber Jack which has lit up properly each time ever since. As I'm still working through the supply of Go System butane I picked up at the 16mm AGM last year I'm now fitting this coffee filter paper behind my other loco's jets.

An excellent tip.

Chris Cairns.

[Whosk]

Silly question but how and where do you put the coffee filter into the line? I presume you undo one of the fittings and put in a tiny piece (2-3mm Ø) of filter and redo fitting?

Wayne

[MDLR]

Silly question but how and where do you put the coffee filter into the line?  I presume you undo one of the fittings and put in a tiny piece (2-3mm Ø) of filter and redo fitting?

Yes - undo the gas jet and insert it behind the jet in the jet fitting.

[Stuvon]

I have been having lots of problems with lighting up and initial steaming, ie, hard to light, won't stay lit, has a pulsating effect and sometimes the flame is really weak at full gas then roars into life.

To me this sounds like a typical Ragleth. Mine is the same when first lit. The pulsing can be seen and heard in Chris Birds excellent Ragleth videos on his Sumerlands You Tube channel. http://youtu.be/l3WNJ-9XL94

There are a couple of ways of getting around this:
1, Let a little gas out before lighting (make sure that it clears before introducing a naked flame). The pulsing is caused by liquid gas being pulled into the burner when the tank is really full so wasting the very top of the tank helps prevent this.

2, Try half filling the gas tank, lighting up and letting it warm through for a couple of mins, before turn turning off, filling the tank and then re-lighting. The warmth will help the liquid butane gas off and it should light better.

3, Try using Butane/Propane Mix. It should help with lighting up, but beware that because of the higher calorific value the engine could run out of water before gas.

[Keith S]

The only foreign body I've ever found in a burner was a small spider that set up house in a Roundhouse burner.

Graeme

Spiders are basically the reason my wife WILL NOT visit Australia.

[Whosk]

Thanks for all the tips fella's-
Stuart, you have pretty well nailed my problems, One trick I have discovered that seems to help my light up is to poke the butane lighter right up the boiler flue and light up, I presume the piezo spark ignites the gas at the source more reliably, I don't have that problem where it burns in the smokebox any where near as bad. Letting the gas run for 10 seconds or so really helps and doesn't seem to eat into the run time but I work real hard to keep the gas flame as low as possible.
Kieth, your wife would freak out at my place, feeding wires thru the shed and disturbed a white tip spider only inches away from the old pinky's then while rummaging thru rubbish in the dark I had to flick a big fat red back spider out of the way, the good news is that I don't have snakes in my yard. Do you want to visit?

[Whosk]

I thought I had better get back and report on my poor gas problems, I know you have all been aching to hear my report
I tried a can of purified butane gas (Ventii brand) and had minnimal problems, I ran out of that gas so used some of the cheaper gas I still had with instant problems, another can of the Ventii purified gas was purchased and all was sweet again. My conclusion:- I don't know if the Gasmate cans were just a dud bunch and I won't have any problems with that gas (if I was to buy anymore), the Ventii purified gas has been good and with the minnimal amount I get to use the cost will still be negligable so I will stick with the Ventii or another purified gas from now on, I want to enjoy what I do and not get frustrated with bad steaming.

Wayne

[GTB]

I don't know if the Gasmate cans were just a dud bunch and I won't have any problems with that gas (if I was to buy anymore),

Could be a bad batch, or a few cans that weren't cleaned properly before filling, or contamination with another gas, or..........

The ones I've been using are Gasmate from batch 100919 and they haven't caused problems. You'll find the batch no. printed on the shoulder of the can, below the valve.

Graeme