Mamod Vs. MSS tin

[Spule 4]

All-

Is it just me, or is MSS locomotive body tin about half the thickness of Mamod locomotive tin?

Also, why on earth did they drill holes in the centers of the progressive die tabs on the tops of the tanks unlike Mamod?

Oh well, gripe over.....

[Chris Cairns]

Is it just me, or is MSS locomotive body tin about half the thickness of Mamod locomotive tin?

Not in my experience. I only have an analogue caliper set but an SL1 side tank is 0.025" thick, and an MSS tank is also 0.025" thick. Interestingly my collection SL1K kit has a 0.020" thick tank which does feel lighter as well. This is an Ascot produced kit dating it between June 1982 & December 1984.

Also, why on earth did they drill holes in the centers of the progressive die tabs on the tops of the tanks unlike Mamod?

Also not in my experience. All my Mamod & MSS locos have the hole at point A, and whilst I cannot see the inside of the tank clearly on my complete locos they do appear to have the 2 holes at point B as well.

MSS Tank Top


Mamod SL1K Tank Top


Chris Cairns.

[Spule 4]

Hello Chris, it has been a few years since we last talked, hasn't it?

My SL1 is a very early loco.  Regardless, now with paint stripped from both the SL1's cab back (it about killed me to cut and strip it) and the MSS tin, maybe the the gauge is the same, but if you look at the MSS tin hard enough, it will dent.  The old Mamod tin seems a bit more stiff.  I did hammer one dent from my childhood out of the back tho before cutting it like a IP Jane for clearance.

OK, in your photos Chris, at point A, the holes go all the way through.  I bought the tin bits off of eBay, they were unused and I stripped the paint off of them when re-bodying Janmod.  I guess this was a previous owner modification.

I was going to buy some filler caps to put on the tanks, but any dealer that had them no longer has them or is no longer trading.  A friend and I have worked out some replacements however.

Soon, all that will be left will be primering and paint!

Now to pick a colour....I was going to try blue, but was not thrilled from the start.

[robc_wa]

I was going to buy some filler caps to put on the tanks, but any dealer that had them no longer has them or is no longer trading.

I recently bought some nice brass filler caps from Dream Steam for my Mamod rebuild project. . As far as I know they are still trading.

By the way, what did you strip yours with? I still have that to do.

Regards

Rob

[dougrail]

BioStrip: WILL remove original Mamod paint. Tried it on some SL-K bodywork last year.

[Chris Cairns]

Hi Garrett,

As you will be aware the original Mamod Steam Railway Company items were made by 4 different owners of Mamod, and we have all experienced differences in the quality of items produced (particularly regulator/reverser valves & piston/cylinder back plates).

IP Engineering produced much higher quality bodywork for their IP Jane, but even in the end of their production they had to resort to fitting Mamod bits including the side tanks. Their original side tanks are 0.035" thick.



Yes many of the Mamod Enhancements have disappeared over the years. Tank Fillers are currently only produced by Dream Steam - http://www.dreamsteam.co.uk/mss-mamod-e ... -tops.html

I was lucky enough to pick up some Mamod enhancements some time again including these Salem Steam Models Tank Fillers.



However see my posting here for news about developments with former PPS Steam Models products - http://gardenrails.myfreeforum.org/about5504.html

A cheap although less effective alternative to these Tank fillers is to use the brass buffer as fitted to Mamod & MSS locos. These come up cheap on ebay sometimes and can be bought individually here - http://www.mamodrailway.co.uk/MSS_Railw ... ling+Stock

Chris Cairns.

[Spule 4]

All-

I used a methylene chloride based stripper, there are two makers of it here in Tennessee, and I have actually (for work) been to both companies/plants, WM Barr and Bix-Homax.

Chris, I have often wondered about my SL, I never had reverser or cylinder problems, but I did do the "lapping" suggested by the 16mm group. I have kept the cylinders for potential DreamSteam rebuild.

Also, two things that are different on mine, the boiler backing plate was held on by two BA6 screws in lieu of rivets as I have seen from several on eBay and the forums. Also, my smokebox is smooth on the sides, while many others appear to have tabs moulded in.

The old Mamod bits are fun to find, I have kept a few of my old ones, and just recently picked up a set of the old IP Jane drivers with the "holes". They are 45mm gauge now, but I have already started re-gauging them.

Thanks for the lead on the Janet/PPS development. Does the the new owner have a website?

[Chris Cairns]

Screw fitted boiler back plates were introduced with the SL1K kit loco in Summer 1983, and I've seen other SL models fitted with these screw fitted boiler back plates (at least one in my collection). It is how MSS produce their models. Makes life a lot easier to change a melted sight glass plastic!

Yes I have locos which have smooth sided smoke boxes and others which have the space for the side tank tabs sticking out as well. Not sure when these were introduced but certainly my SL1K kit has the smooth sided smoke box.

IP Engineering 45mm wheels are easy to regauge to 32mm. Just knock one of the wheels off the axle with a punch, cut the axle to required size, and refix wheel using strong loctite. I got a 45mm IP Jane but unfortunately it was fitted with the extended 45mm piston assemblies, plus the piston rod ends had been filed down for some reason, so I needed to fit some Dream Steam wheels which have longer crank pins. At least I will have a pair of IP Eng 32mm wheels for my rebuilds.

The PPS Janet was being built by Clarke Engineering in Dec 2009 and they were selling them direct on ebay for £410. But I guess there was not a market for them at that price as I've not seen them recently.

Roy Wood does not appear to have a website but I'll keep you posted if he provides me with any more info.

Chris Cairns.

[Spule 4]

Thanks for the replies, and the added few new questions!

On the screw plates for the boilers, if you have one with rivets that fails, and you have to replace the glass, can you tap and/or use screws, or are you stuck with rivets in the replacement?

I have already knocked one driver off of each axle, so now it cutting, quartering and loctite-ing.

Yes, I remember someone had posted that PPS was getting out of the Janet business and that they would be sold via eBay of all places, saw a couple listed, and saw nothing more again.

Thank you for any future info, there are a few more bits of PPS origins I need.

[Chris Cairns]

OK,

So looking through my collection of Mamod SL's it looks like the moulded side tank tab smoke boxes were introduced by the 4th owner of Mamod to produce the Railway System - Jedmond (Engineers) Limited, which would date them between June 1985 and 1989 when the Railway System production finished under Mamod. Certainly the SL6 is fitted with such a smoke box, and this was produced in 1989 only.

As to refitting a sight glass on a riveted boiler back plate you have 2 options: -

1. Get some blind copper rivets and refit it as done in the factory.

2. Fit a threaded stud or bolt to the rivet hole. What I do is take a 3/8" 6BA bolt, a little flux and some solder around the threads at the head of the bolt, put some string thread through the rivet hole and collect it up through the sight glass hole. Wrap the thread around the bolt, and pull the bolt into the boiler and get the threaded portion up through the rivet hole. Hold the bolt out of the boiler and solder in place. In 2 boilers I've done this way I found the rivet holes were a different size.



The boiler back is a bit thin to cut a thread into which would need to hold up against the extra pressure produced by meths/gas burners & higher pressure safety valves.

Chris Cairns.

[dougrail]

SL-Ks didn't have the 'box' at the sides of the smokebox for the tank tabs then?

I picked up an SLK with original bodywork and wheels that had the riveted boiler backplate and the smokebox with the 'box' in for the tabs...genuine or a mishmash?

[Chris Cairns]

SL1Ks were never fitted with riveted boiler back plates, so perhaps yours was made up from different parts. However just like the current Mamod Limited who have a policy of continual product improvement without prior notice, it could be possible that the 1980's Mamod Limited used what they had available (particularly with 4 changes of owner & location). Some SLs have the rear of the cylinder back plate riveted to the chassis frame whereas others have 6BA bolts and nuts fitted here.

I picked up a modified Mamod at STIA some years ago being told it was a kit Mamod. However it had SL1 green side tanks, smaller size bolts & nuts holding the roof on, and some round headed 6BA bolts holding the bodywork together (Mamod & MSS use cheese headed bolts for this). David Evans (former Works Manager & Director of Mamod Limited, who set up MSS) confirmed to Alun Dunster (Dream Steam) that no green SL1K kits were ever made. So my loco was probably a late model SL1 which had been de-riveted and modified.

I have a boxed SL1K which was produced by the 'BTP (Ascot) Limited' Mamod Limited which would date it between June 1982 when production resumed and December 1984 when Mamod Limited was sold to Jedmond (Engineers) Limited who ceased production of the Railway System in 1989. This has a smooth sided smoke box, so again moulded side tank tab smoke box SL1Ks could have been produced by the Jedmond (Engineers) Limited Mamod Limited, but these would have had screw fitted boiler back plates, as no blind copper rivets were included in these kits, there is no mention of requiring a pop rivet gun required in the instructions, and MSS locos do not have riveted boiler back plates either.

Chris Cairns.

[Spule 4]

Thanks for the tip Chris on the studs. I imagine due to the boiler's construction that the soldering is soft vs. hard/silver?

I do remember on a website by a resident of Scotland with a nice garden railway who had a Mamod fleet (including a couple rotting away in his dead-line) who would just solder up the sight glasses completely. Unfortunately in the past five years, I have lost track of the website.

[Chris Cairns]

Yes the 6BA bolts are just soft soldered into the boiler back plate.

I've also seen boilers with the sight glass plastic replaced by a metal plate. Presumably this is because they could not get a good seal with the 'O' ring supplied with sight glass replacement kits, or suffered from flames licking up onto the footplate from an un-guarded meths or gas burner and melting the plastic.

The guards (wings) fitted to most meths burners (like the old IP Eng or current Dream Steam burners) do not go right up to the boiler bottom face, and are straight topped (not curved to hug the boiler) so these can allow flames onto the footplate.

And none of the gas burners have any form of guards (wings).

To get the best seal of a sight glass plastic I use the Mamod SP Engine range oval washer. These are also used in the Mamod Jubilee, William & William II, & the New Mamod Locomotive Mark 's I & II.

Chris Cairns.

[Spule 4]

Update.....

After working carefully to trim the spectacle plate for the Jan-Mod to remove the sides, a couple weeks ago, I really did a number to it.

Using the same drill press and same drill bit I used to drill a hole in to clear the regulator in the spectacle plate of the early 1980s Mamod, it "tore" on the MSS tin!

I then took tin-snips and what should have been an nice hole to clear the regluator, is now a big open square. At least it should be hidden by the regulator and other bits.

The other options is to just do away with all the metal above the tanks, no spectacle plate, but I fear that this will make it too industrial.

At least the final colour I have selected should be a good one, if not a bit different. It is a throw-back to a favorite live steam loco from childhood.