countess fire

James-Buzz · Post by **James-Buzz** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 10:39 am

Hi guys, having a problem with an Accucraft countess, when lighting the fire blows back and after a few seconds burns out the front of the smokebox, she is lit with the smokebox door open. Once or twice if blown the fire then moves to the cab!!! Is there a trick I've missed?

Narrow Minded · Post by **Narrow Minded** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 11:30 am

Easy-peasy (though it's been mentioned before!)

DON'T FILL THE GAS TANK!. Only part-fill it with a couple of seconds squirt from the gas can.
Light up and let her warm through, then turn the gas OFF and give her a complete fill - relighting straight away.

The problem you're encountering is common to most Accucraft loco's in that there is no effective "trap" in the gas tank design to prevent liquid butane reaching the burner when the tank is "over-filled".

James-Buzz · Post by **James-Buzz** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:22 pm

Ahh right, ok thanks, i will empty the tank a bit and try again, I was up to this point following the instructions which say little more than "fill tank with gas"

James-Buzz · Post by **James-Buzz** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 4:31 pm

on further testing the loco will still only light with a flame coming out the front of the engine, the burner appears to be right at the top in the flue, but not sure if this would affect things? or how to move it.

Jerm · Post by **Jerm** » Sun Jul 24, 2011 2:49 am

I am making a note of this for the next time I get Ruby fired up. I always wondered why that first tank of gas seemed so inefficient.

Mr ACME · Post by **Mr ACME** » Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:04 am

James-Buzz:56693 wrote:on further testing the loco will still only light with a flame coming out the front of the engine, the burner appears to be right at the top in the flue, but not sure if this would affect things? or how to move it.

Please check out the thread on Ragleth similar prolems.

Please check and clear if necessary the gas jet and reseal with PTFE tape.

As to filling the gas tank, the trick is fill and then with out lighting open the gas valve, (Obviously in a safe place.) Count to five and then shut valve. Allow escaped gas to escape, then light as normal. This allows a gap at the top of the tank which allows the cold liquid gas to warm up and return to its gaseous form.

Should be OK now.

Narrow Minded · Post by **Narrow Minded** » Sun Jul 24, 2011 9:33 pm

It could well be a partially blocked jet as you suggest Mike, so it's worth checking !

As for filling then wasting 5 seconds worth of gas (in these frugal times

), the added advantage of the "quick squirt" method is that you've brought your boiler just about up to temperature ready for the fill'n'go

Quick question, is there such a thing as a "safe" jet pricker? (ie one that won't damage the bore) or do you recommend "blowing back" through with the gas can?

Mr ACME · Post by **Mr ACME** » Sun Jul 24, 2011 11:21 pm

Narrow Minded:56741 wrote:It could well be a partially blocked jet as you suggest Mike, so it's worth checking !

As for filling then wasting 5 seconds worth of gas (in these frugal times ), the added advantage of the "quick squirt" method is that you've brought your boiler just about up to temperature ready for the fill'n'go

Quick question, is there such a thing as a "safe" jet pricker? (ie one that won't damage the bore) or do you recommend "blowing back" through with the gas can?

Hello Greg.
I know that it's recommended to blow out the jet, but to be honest I swear by a tiny jet pricker I bought from John Prescott Engineering at Llanfair show. I'm sure that he'll be there again this year.

Perhaps I'm overcautious but as the volume of the boiler and gas tank are matched to allow the water to run out first, I resist the temptation to fill the gas tank in two do's.

Sir haydn · Post by **Sir haydn** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:54 am

have you tried adjusting the air collar on the burner? Sounds starved of air

James-Buzz · Post by **James-Buzz** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:14 pm

I will add some pics showing jet set up, thanks.

James-Buzz · Post by **James-Buzz** » Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:11 pm

Starved of air sounds right, but how does one change that?

The burner is right at the top of the flue, the superheater pipe seems to have pushed it right to the top, would this affect performance?

Sir haydn · Post by **Sir haydn** » Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:59 pm

Ahh, Maybe not starved but the opposite. Most Accy countesses have the collar covering around 1/3 of the air hole. Try that.

GTB · Post by **GTB** » Thu Jul 28, 2011 2:14 pm

James-Buzz:56857 wrote: The burner is right at the top of the flue, the superheater pipe seems to have pushed it right to the top, would this affect performance?

I'm not familiar with how Accucraft locos are set up, but to me it looks like the burner assembly is upside down.

The burner tube should be toward the bottom of the flue, with the slots facing up, to leave space for the flame.

If the flame isn't in the right place, there won't be much heat transfer, even if it does manage to light.

Regards,
Graeme

Sir haydn · Post by **Sir haydn** » Thu Jul 28, 2011 2:25 pm

GTB:56862 wrote:
James-Buzz:56857 wrote: The burner is right at the top of the flue, the superheater pipe seems to have pushed it right to the top, would this affect performance?
I'm not familiar with how Accucraft locos are set up, but to me it looks like the burner assembly is upside down.

The burner tube should be toward the bottom of the flue, with the slots facing up, to leave space for the flame.

If the flame isn't in the right place, there won't be much heat transfer, even if it does manage to light.

Regards,
Graeme

Accucraft burners burn 'down'. The burner 'set up' is totally correct for an Accy loco

GTB · Post by **GTB** » Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:54 pm

Sir haydn:56865 wrote: Accucraft burners burn 'down'. The burner 'set up' is totally correct for an Accy loco

You learn something new every day.........

GB

Marquis DeCarabas · Post by **Marquis DeCarabas** » Thu Jul 28, 2011 5:06 pm

Sir haydn:56865 wrote:Accucraft burners burn 'down'. The burner 'set up' is totally correct for an Accy loco

Really? I'm pretty sure that isn't the case in the NGG16/NGG15 boilers - the twin firetube accucraft boilers.

I can see what you're saying, but it just doesn't make sense from a physics point of view.

Narrow Minded · Post by **Narrow Minded** » Thu Jul 28, 2011 5:24 pm

It certainly doesn't - what with heat rising etc......
It also doesn't help with the problem of liquid gas escaping from the tank and into the flue via the "upside down" burner!
BUT, there might be some truth that the flame being applied to the lowest part of the boiler is safer if one ends up running "low"?
(or on "steep" gradients??)

Marquis DeCarabas · Post by **Marquis DeCarabas** » Thu Jul 28, 2011 6:30 pm

Narrow Minded:56878 wrote: BUT, there might be some truth that the flame being applied to the lowest part of the boiler is safer if one ends up running "low"?
(or on "steep" gradients??)

Eh?

The blue 'cone' which is the coldest part of the flame is unlit gas and that will be impelled downwards until ignition and natural appreciation of physics would tend to make you think the flame/gas/air mixture will curl round the burner and go upwards.

However, with this screenie:

it does look as if the burner is inverted compared to conventional practice - how peculiar - inscrutable oriental design, perhaps.

James-Buzz · Post by **James-Buzz** » Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:56 pm

This is certainly turning into an interesting thread!! hopefully at some point soon i'll be able to fix the lady.

Can anyone else with a Countess/Earl upload a photo similar to my first or second one showing position of collar round air intake holes please.

Mr ACME · Post by **Mr ACME** » Fri Jul 29, 2011 12:45 am

James-Buzz:56883 wrote:This is certainly turning into an interesting thread!! hopefully at some point soon i'll be able to fix the lady.

Can anyone else with a Countess/Earl upload a photo similar to my first or second one showing position of collar round air intake holes please.

Look don't waste your time with spurious suggestions. Nine times out of ten the cause of the flame burning in the smokebox is either a blocked jet or missing PTFE tape.

Have you checked as per my original post?

The reason the collar was introduced was to be able to reduce the noise level of the burner by adjusting the volume of air entering.

I have just fixed under warranty for Accucraft a Lawley which exhibited exactly the same problem you describe and suffered a fire in the smokebox/cylinders.

I also have in for warranty repair a Countess which has RC issues. If you really want pics of the burner, fine, but you need to rule out potentail problems in a logical manner.

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