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An interesting North American subject
Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2022 6:11 am
by Keith S
I have been busy repairing one of my father's locomotives. He prefers North American subjects, and the locomotive I am repairing for him is a "Shay" type geared locomotive in HO scale. While looking for parts online, I encountered this article about a fascinating little engine made b6 a company called "Bell". They used the steam motor from a "Stanley Steamer" automobile, with gear reduction and a weird type of boiler with no crown sheet and fuelled from a tank in the cab.
It brings to mind Accucraft's little "Dora" locomotive. In fact, if "Dora" was available with a saddle tank, it would pretty much be a scale model of a little "Bell" engine. It's almost identical, even in the mechanical sense, being gear-driven by a steam motor between the frames, a fire-tube boiler without a firebox, liquid-fuelled from a tank in the cab.
If I was interested in American-style logging and contractor's locomotives, I would pick up a "Dora" tomorrow and get cracking. There's a company in America called "Ozark miniatures" who make absolutely brilliant narrow-gauge logging and industrial wagons, too.
Here is a link to the article, in case anyone's interested. I now would find it hard to believe that the man who drew up the "Dora" model wasn't influenced by this full-size design.
https://ngslgazette.com/modeling-a-bell ... t-in-on30/
Re: An interesting North American subject
Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2022 9:31 am
by Andrew
You're right, that's a great little loco! I notice the author talks about a large (G, I guess) scale version on a Bachmann chassis too...
Re: An interesting North American subject
Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2022 12:22 pm
by GTB
Keith S wrote: ↑Fri Dec 16, 2022 6:11 am
While looking for parts online, I encountered this article about a fascinating little engine made b6 a company called "Bell". They used the steam motor from a "Stanley Steamer" automobile, with gear reduction and a weird type of boiler with no crown sheet and fuelled from a tank in the cab.
Bell made a range of locos, from small 0-4-0 locos with one steam motor, up to a double bogie version with two steam motors. They also offered what they described as a 'self-propelled passenger car'.
http://www.gearedsteam.com/bell/bell.htm
Peter Angus has built at least one model of the double bogie Bell locomotive, using his usual arrangement of a transverse osmotor and geared drive to the bogies.
Regards,
Graeme
Re: An interesting North American subject
Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2022 1:28 pm
by Andrew
I like the side tank and the tender version, both of which look they could be bashed from a Regner.
Do be careful if you're exploring that page, by the way. I hadn't heard of all the manufacturers and, being a librarian, clicked on "Dewey" - the page I came across definitely had nothing to do with either library classification systems or geared locomotives...
Re: An interesting North American subject
Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2022 6:09 pm
by Keith S
Andrew wrote: ↑Fri Dec 16, 2022 1:28 pm
I like the side tank and the tender version, both of which look they could be bashed from a Regner.
Do be careful if you're exploring that page, by the way. I hadn't heard of all the manufacturers and, being a librarian, clicked on "Dewey" - the page I came across
definitely had nothing to do with either library classification systems or geared locomotives...
Obviously when someone says "don't do it".... I say. Someone should alert the page owner. That can't be intentional.
Anyway, the Bell locomotives. What an interesting assortment of prototypes.
Somewhere on that website there's also a picture of a more conventional-looking saddle-tank 0-4-0 with OSCILLATING cylinders, à la Mamod.
There truly is a prototype for everything.
Re: An interesting North American subject
Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2022 11:10 pm
by Lonsdaler
Andrew wrote: ↑Fri Dec 16, 2022 1:28 pm
I like the side tank and the tender version, both of which look they could be bashed from a Regner.
Do be careful if you're exploring that page, by the way. I hadn't heard of all the manufacturers and, being a librarian, clicked on "Dewey" - the page I came across
definitely had nothing to do with either library classification systems or geared locomotives...
Well, after being warned, I had to take a look. The Dewey link took me to an article about the Dewey Brothers and their locomotives, so presumably any problem you found has been sorted.
Re: An interesting North American subject
Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2022 10:05 am
by Andrew
Lonsdaler wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 11:10 pm
Andrew wrote: ↑Fri Dec 16, 2022 1:28 pm
I like the side tank and the tender version, both of which look they could be bashed from a Regner.
Do be careful if you're exploring that page, by the way. I hadn't heard of all the manufacturers and, being a librarian, clicked on "Dewey" - the page I came across
definitely had nothing to do with either library classification systems or geared locomotives...
Well, after being warned, I had to take a look. The Dewey link took me to an article about the Dewey Brothers and their locomotives, so presumably any problem you found has been sorted.
Excellent - I might take another look now that I know I won't be corrupted!
Re: An interesting North American subject
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2022 2:06 pm
by ge_rik
Andrew wrote: ↑Mon Dec 19, 2022 10:05 am
Lonsdaler wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 11:10 pm
Andrew wrote: ↑Fri Dec 16, 2022 1:28 pm
I like the side tank and the tender version, both of which look they could be bashed from a Regner.
Do be careful if you're exploring that page, by the way. I hadn't heard of all the manufacturers and, being a librarian, clicked on "Dewey" - the page I came across
definitely had nothing to do with either library classification systems or geared locomotives...
Well, after being warned, I had to take a look. The Dewey link took me to an article about the Dewey Brothers and their locomotives, so presumably any problem you found has been sorted.
Excellent - I might take another look now that I know I won't be corrupted!
I couldn't find any link to Dewey or even "dewy". I don't think I've got the childlock features switched on.....
Rik
Re: An interesting North American subject
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2022 3:51 pm
by philipy
ge_rik wrote: ↑Tue Dec 27, 2022 2:06 pm
Andrew wrote: ↑Mon Dec 19, 2022 10:05 am
Lonsdaler wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 11:10 pm
Well, after being warned, I had to take a look. The Dewey link took me to an article about the Dewey Brothers and their locomotives, so presumably any problem you found has been sorted.
Excellent - I might take another look now that I know I won't be corrupted!
I couldn't find any link to Dewey or even "dewy". I don't think I've got the childlock features switched on.....
Rik
This thread has got a bit convoluted, but the link to the Dewey loco's is on Graeme's input (
http://www.gearedsteam.com/bell/bell.htm ) not, afaik on Andrew's original link.
Re: An interesting North American subject
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2022 9:55 pm
by GAP
Keith S wrote: ↑Fri Dec 16, 2022 6:11 am
I have been busy repairing one of my father's locomotives. He prefers North American subjects, and the locomotive I am repairing for him is a "Shay" type geared locomotive in HO scale. While looking for parts online, I encountered this article about a fascinating little engine made b6 a company called "Bell". They used the steam motor from a "Stanley Steamer" automobile, with gear reduction and a weird type of boiler with no crown sheet and fuelled from a tank in the cab.
It brings to mind Accucraft's little "Dora" locomotive. In fact, if "Dora" was available with a saddle tank, it would pretty much be a scale model of a little "Bell" engine. It's almost identical, even in the mechanical sense, being gear-driven by a steam motor between the frames, a fire-tube boiler without a firebox, liquid-fuelled from a tank in the cab.
If I was interested in American-style logging and contractor's locomotives, I would pick up a "Dora" tomorrow and get cracking. There's a company in America called "Ozark miniatures" who make absolutely brilliant narrow-gauge logging and industrial wagons, too.
Here is a link to the article, in case anyone's interested. I now would find it hard to believe that the man who drew up the "Dora" model wasn't influenced by this full-size design.
https://ngslgazette.com/modeling-a-bell ... t-in-on30/
What problem have you encountered with the HO shay? Is it a Bachmann Spectrum one?
Re: An interesting North American subject
Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2022 12:11 am
by Keith S
GAP wrote: ↑Tue Dec 27, 2022 9:55 pm
What problem have you encountered with the HO shay? Is it a Bachmann Spectrum one?
No, unfortunately not. It's one of those old ones marketed variously by "MDC/Roundhouse" in America. I think it was probably designed in the 1980s, maybe even before that. It has bogies that are driven by a hidden cardan shaft under the locomotive, rather like a 00 scale diesel, with worm gears inside the bogies. The cosmetic piston rods are driven by the scale jackshaft via the external gears. It is actually a fairly nice-looking model, but its drive system is archaic compared to the Spectrum one.
It came in kit form, and 20 years ago I assembled one for my Dad for his model railway. I was unaware that this model has been loved and deplored by enthusiasts for decades, and is reputed to be very difficult to get running nicely. Well predictably it broke down and while visiting I saw it relegated to a "display" scene outside Dad's model lumber mill. So I brought it home to resurrect it. I replaced all the nylon gears in the bogies, which had shrunk and split on their axles, with new delrin ones, and replaced the main gears in the motor reduction drive with aftermarket brass ones, as well as the universal joints on the cardan shaft. I also made sure all the gears on the external jackshaft were meshing in sync with each other and gave it a good running-in on a little piece of track at the local model railway club. I have it running quite sweetly now, I think, so it's going back to Victoria hopefully to haul little logs once again on Dad's layout.
- EDE91569-C5FC-4670-84BE-1B21EE996D85.jpeg (1.27 MiB) Viewed 5120 times
Re: An interesting North American subject
Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2022 9:19 am
by GAP
Keith S wrote: ↑Wed Dec 28, 2022 12:11 am
GAP wrote: ↑Tue Dec 27, 2022 9:55 pm
What problem have you encountered with the HO shay? Is it a Bachmann Spectrum one?
No, unfortunately not. It's one of those old ones marketed variously by "MDC/Roundhouse" in America. I think it was probably designed in the 1980s, maybe even before that. It has bogies that are driven by a hidden cardan shaft under the locomotive, rather like a 00 scale diesel, with worm gears inside the bogies. The cosmetic piston rods are driven by the scale jackshaft via the external gears. It is actually a fairly nice-looking model, but its drive system is archaic compared to the Spectrum one.
It came in kit form, and 20 years ago I assembled one for my Dad for his model railway. I was unaware that this model has been loved and deplored by enthusiasts for decades, and is reputed to be very difficult to get running nicely. Well predictably it broke down and while visiting I saw it relegated to a "display" scene outside Dad's model lumber mill. So I brought it home to resurrect it. I replaced all the nylon gears in the bogies, which had shrunk and split on their axles, with new delrin ones, and replaced the main gears in the motor reduction drive with aftermarket brass ones, as well as the universal joints on the cardan shaft. I also made sure all the gears on the external jackshaft were meshing in sync with each other and gave it a good running-in on a little piece of track at the local model railway club. I have it running quite sweetly now, I think, so it's going back to Victoria hopefully to haul little logs once again on Dad's layout.
EDE91569-C5FC-4670-84BE-1B21EE996D85.jpeg
I have one of those as well as the Bachmann one. I even have a book that explains all the pitfalls for getting them running (its supposedly a very rare book).
I have relegated mine to becoming a dummy pulled by the Bachmann one when it is repaired.
True to form the Bachmann gears all split so it does not move but I have metal set from North West Shortline that a person can fit for me (eyes not capable of seeing small detail I have HO trains with G scale eyes) to make it a goer again.
Re: An interesting North American subject
Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2022 12:51 am
by Keith S
Well, I am hoping I've got the MDC engine running well enough. I can't afford a Bachmann one (!) but the model is running very nicely now if I do say so. Hopefully my Dad agrees. It's his hobby, not mine. I used the North West Short Line regearing kit and I must say it has improved the model. As is usually the case, I've put so much work into it that I am reluctant to give it back. I fell sort of attached to it now.
Re: An interesting North American subject
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 4:03 pm
by Old Man Aaron
Fine work, getting it going again. I bought one for cheap at a swap meet years ago, back when I modelled logging (sort of) in HO. Wasn't a runner, and it didn't take much reading online before I got daunted and relegated it to the scrap line like your dad's Shay. I also had the Bachmann one, and it too of course had the split gears.
Bought the NWSL replacements but never got to fitting them, including them with the loco when I sold it after losing interest in HO. Someone got a bargain out of me that day!
- IMG_0737.JPG (314.08 KiB) Viewed 4747 times
Re: An interesting North American subject
Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2023 4:30 am
by dudeface
I think I see the problem, it appears to be stuck to the ceiling.
Re: An interesting North American subject
Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2023 8:14 pm
by GAP
Old Man Aaron wrote: ↑Fri Jan 20, 2023 4:03 pm
Fine work, getting it going again. I bought one for cheap at a swap meet years ago, back when I modelled logging (sort of) in HO. Wasn't a runner, and it didn't take much reading online before I got daunted and relegated it to the scrap line like your dad's Shay. I also had the Bachmann one, and it too of course had the split gears.
Bought the NWSL replacements but never got to fitting them, including them with the loco when I sold it after losing interest in HO. Someone got a bargain out of me that day!
IMG_0737.JPG
I have gone down the exact same road except for selling my Bachmann but that is in the wind as my HO layout is destined for demolition to make way for G scale storage.
I did find someone who will fit them for me so still tossing up doing that or just selling it and telling the buyer about the repairer.