Garden Railway Forum

Morning all,

With my project to build a Kerr Stuart diesel underway, I've been refreshing my knowledge of the old Festiniog and Welsh Highland's "tractors", as they called their internal combustion engines. This article - https://colonelstephenssociety.co.uk/lo ... ction.html - is very interesting on the subject, and mentions a small Austro Daimler locomotive that worked the Croesor branch, illustrated by a picture of a funny little skip frame loco. I like its quirkiness, but have never really fancied making a model of it - it would be bloomin' tricky, apart from anything else!

Anyway, yesterday I re-read the Festipedia article on the same loco - https://www.festipedia.org.uk/wiki/Austro-Daimler - which suggests that, in fact, the loco in question wasn't a skip frame, but something a little larger, one of these, a Feldbahn type SL 12A:


How great is that?! I found some other pictures online too, including some showing that the roof could also act as a lid when the loco wasn't in use - ingenious...

At 12 HP, it can't have pulled much, so I reckon at some point I'll have a crack at it, on a cheap and cheerful chassis. It would look great tootling about the flowerbeds with a couple of slate wagons in tow, or a single toastrack carriage, as per the trial mentioned in the Festipedia article.

For now though, back to the Kerr Stuart...

Cheers,

Andrew.

Another little cracker! It would need to be modelled with all its bruises of course, otherwise it would look quite normal.

SKGLB wrote: ↑Wed Jun 22, 2022 11:56 am https://www.austrodaimler.at/fotogaleri ... fahrzeuge/

Thank you!

I've just found this page too: http://www.feldbahn.at/fahrzeuge/verbre ... aimler.php

Nearly enough to go on there, I reckon...

I like the way the roof can be raised and lowered for various clearance heights and also to seal the cab when the loco isn't in use.
Source:http://www.feldbahn.at/fahrzeuge/verbre ... aimler.php

Rik

ge_rik wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 7:20 am I like the way the roof can be raised and lowered for various clearance heights and also to seal the cab when the loco isn't in use.

Now that should be an interesting r/c mechanism!

philipy wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:04 am

ge_rik wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 7:20 am I like the way the roof can be raised and lowered for various clearance heights and also to seal the cab when the loco isn't in use.

Now that should be an interesting r/c mechanism!

I said I was going to keep it simple!

Great for forays up the FR though, could just wind in the roof when it reached the tunnels!

philipy wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:04 am

ge_rik wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 7:20 am I like the way the roof can be raised and lowered for various clearance heights and also to seal the cab when the loco isn't in use.

Now that should be an interesting r/c mechanism!

Maybe the driver figure could also have telescopic legs .....

Rik

Andrew wrote: ↑Wed Jun 22, 2022 1:00 pm Thank you!

I've just found this page too: http://www.feldbahn.at/fahrzeuge/verbre ... aimler.php

Nearly enough to go on there, I reckon...

Fascinating that the power is given in kW rather than HP. Is HP a UK only unit?

Rik

ge_rik wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:38 am
Fascinating that the power is given in kW rather than HP. Is HP a UK only unit?

No, predictably the Yanks still use HP as well.

Horsepower is a unit of work, originally defined by James Watt to give an idea of how many horses one of his steam engines could replace. Used originally to determine the royalty that had to be paid by his customers.

An English HP is defined as 33,000 ft.lbf/min. Welsh pit ponies develop less than one HP, Clydesdales develop more, not surprisingly.

The Frogs and every other 'furriner' east of the channel had their own definition and name for a unit of work, all of which translated to horsepower in english. There was also a metric HP defined as 75 kgf.m/s and known as a PS, (pferdestarke, german for horsepower) that was superseded in the '70s by the use of the kW. Metric horses were slightly less powerful than british ones......

There's a Wikipedia page on the subject of HP, if for some reason you want more detail........

Graeme

GTB wrote: ↑Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:28 am

ge_rik wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:38 am
Fascinating that the power is given in kW rather than HP. Is HP a UK only unit?

No, predictably the Yanks still use HP as well.

Horsepower is a unit of work, originally defined by James Watt to give an idea of how many horses one of his steam engines could replace. Used originally to determine the royalty that had to be paid by his customers.

An English HP is defined as 33,000 ft.lbf/min. Welsh pit ponies develop less than one HP, Clydesdales develop more, not surprisingly.

The Frogs and every other 'furriner' east of the channel had their own definition and name for a unit of work, all of which translated to horsepower in english. There was also a metric HP defined as 75 kgf.m/s and known as a PS, (pferdestarke, german for horsepower) that was superseded in the '70s by the use of the kW. Metric horses were slightly less powerful than british ones......

There's a Wikipedia page on the subject of HP, if for some reason you want more detail........

Graeme

So a 2CV would be the metric HP and not the Anglo HP ......

Rik

ge_rik wrote: ↑Fri Jun 24, 2022 8:25 pm So a 2CV would be the metric HP and not the Anglo HP ......

2CV is two pony power.

The symbol for french HP was actually ch I gather. CV is the froggie equivalent of RAC HP, used to work out how much tax Pierre had to pay the guvmint for the privilege of puttering down the road in his motorised roller skate to deliver his eggs to market.

Tax hp bears little relationship to how much power was developed where the rubber met the road, as it was calculated, not measured. A Citroen 2CV motor is usually quoted as developing 9 HP in early models, probably the metric equivalent of brake HP. As a comparison, the by then geriatric Austin 7 actually put out 10 HP, the 7 was the RAC rating used for tax purposes.

The small difference between a metric PS and an english HP is due to rounding down in the conversion from english units of measurement to metric ones.

Graeme

PM me your email address Andrew and I will send you some drawings. I wrote most of the Festipedia article based on a fair bit of research including some delving in the archives at Caernarfon, and I've managed to source 4 drawings (including an A-D works one) I can send you if that would be helpful

Edit: I've posted the drawings here now, just waiting for post approval. I've got some more photos I can post too if people would like.

I've dug the drawings out to post here, all came from various depths of the internet (as can be seen by the languages on some of them!) I've also attached two photos I find of the same loco in both the roof up and roof down position. I'm slowly doing more research into the type, with the hope of building a model eventually

Hello, welcome to the Forum - and thank you!

I've not been online much over the last couple of days, so it was a very nice surprise to log on to the Forum and see your posts - those drawings are wonderful!

I think the Austro Daimler's probably a medium-term project for me, partly because I've got plenty of other models in the queue (including the current Kerr Stuart diesel) but, who knows (certainly not me!), it might rise to the top of the pile sooner rather than later. It would certainly make a very attractive model, although it might be difficult to a) hide the motor, batteries etc and b) replicate the engine and other mechanical gubbins of the real thing.

Anyway, thanks again - and do post pictures if you build your model.

With best wishes,

Andrew.