Using a Cricut Joy m/c to produce custom vinyl lining.

[philipy]

The final result looks good, and maybe it's the lighting, but that looks like a dropped shadow effect.

Thanks Phil.
I can sort of see what you are referring to, but I think it's a trick of the light and you are seeing a 'real' shadow because of the thickness of the vinyl.

[GTB]

I can sort of see what you are referring to, but I think it's a trick of the light and you are seeing a 'real' shadow because of the thickness of the vinyl.

The shadow is some sort of artifact from the photo software, probably something to do with the sharpness algorithms and maybe also how JPEG files are compressed.

If you look closely at this tank wagon photo https://gardenrails.org/myff/1966668/Water+tank-c.jpg there seems to be a dark border around the plain white lettering and a white border around the black panel. Both are figments of Photoshop's imagination....! The lettering is waterslide decals, with no borders and no appreciable thickness to cast a shadow.

While you are in experimenting mode. It may be possible to add rudimentary black shading to the lettering with careful use of a mapping pen and india ink. The step at the vinyl edge should act as a guide for the pen if you are lucky and hold your mouth the right way. A very fine Pilot razor point marking pen is about 0.3mm and might also do the job.

Graeme

[Durley]

I've been doing some experimenting to find the best way of lettering my F&B coaches. To cut a long story, I've unfortunately given up on adding dropped shadows to letters that are only 3.5mm high, or less, and they will have to be plain yellow.

I've tried several ways of producing the plain yellow letters: Using the Cricut Joy to cut the individual letters from vinyl, weeding out the letters and using the vinyl as a template for hand painting, and using the Washi sheet to produce templates for hand painting like Durley does with his vehicles.
So far, cutting the individual vinyl letters and applying with transfer tape is giving me the best results, because, from the RHS in this picture:
1) Using vinyl for the mask, the vinyl leaves a very sticky residue on the panel when it's peeled off.
2) & 3) Using Washi as a mask, works Ok, but sticks to the surface too fiercely and leaves horrible shredded backing paper stuck on.
4) (LHS) Individual letters, cut from vinyl and transferred with transfer tape.

For reference, the R and C are 4.5mm high and the underlines are 0.35mm deep.

IMG_0171.jpg

...and in case anyone wondered, this was a failed coach body print, quickly sprayed up to experiment on!

I’m not sure what is causing the issues with the masks Philip. The Washi tape is meant to be low tack and peelable, it looks as if the glue has maybe reacted with the paint somehow. My GVT wagon I posted a picture of earlier in the thread was done with washi tape masks which peeled off easily, leave no residue. Both the body colour and lettering were sprayed with acrylic paint from an aerosol (Hycote red primer and Tamiya white primer respectively).
Is the vinyl used for the mask the normal type or the removable type? Removable vinyl also shouldn’t leave any glue residue.
It’s a shame the mask approach hasn’t worked but the vinyl letters do look neat however!

[philipy]

Graeme,
My original intention was to make masks which included the dropped shadows, paint it all yellow and then use a black lining pen to trace round just the appropriate bits of the mask. Before I discovered the adhering problems, I tried it but found that even using a 0.1mm pen, it smeared across the yellow surface and looked awful. I suspect that may be due to ink-paint chemistry mismatch - see the next bit of this.

Durley,
I think I've identified the problem with both the Washi adhering problems and the vinyl sticky residue. Because this was an experiment with the general concept, I quickly sprayed the coach with the red colour but didn't waste time and material by varnishing. I think that was the mistake, because I now think that both the Washi and the vinyl reacted to the 'rough' surface of the unvarnished red primer paint and stuck firmly to it. The vinyl being an inherently stronger material did pull off cleanly but left its adhesive stuck to the paint surface, and the Washi wasn't strong enough and left half its thickness stuck to the paint.

I realised that this was probably the issue yesterday afternoon. I was applying the plain yellow vinyl letters to the actual coach body which had been painted, then varnished with one coat of Army Painter acrylic matt spray. Most of it was fine but I must have had a brainstorm and the word SECOND on one panel was fractionally angled. I noticed it as soon as I had finished putting all the lettering on, so it had to come off and put a spare set on. To get it off I simply ran a thumbnail across it and it came off clean as a whistle, with no adhesive left behind! I then remembered similar situations with the loco, where I could adjust the position of the "permanent" vinyl lining for quite a while after applying it, but a subsequent spray of varnish seems to glue it in place permanently.

I've done a couple of quick tests and my 0.1mm lining pen seems to be Ok on a varnished surface - the original test was on unvarnished acrylic painted lettering. So I'm now wondering if I dare pluck up the courage to go back to Plan A+ and use the applied vinyl lettering as a template to apply the shadow from the outside as opposed to the inside on my original Plan.

[GTB]

I suspect that may be due to ink-paint chemistry mismatch - see the next bit of this.

There can also be reactions between adhesives and paints, as well as between plastic types. I've had interactions between acrylic varnishes and masking tape adhesives and I've seen the plasticisers in flexible PVC attack HIPS.

The sorts of adhesives used on sticky tape, masking tape, etc. are synthetic rubber based and presumably contain solvents and/or plasticisers.

If I was less impatient, I'd use test pieces for new materials and techniques as you did........

So I'm now wondering if I dare pluck up the courage to go back to Plan A+ and use the applied vinyl lettering as a template to apply the shadow from the outside as opposed to the inside on my original Plan.

I'd be a bit gun-shy as well, but I think it would be worth a try on a test piece.......

Some pens have water borne inks, some are solvent based. They'll have different material compatibilities, so don't give up if the first test fails. Water borne inks don't always work well on smooth non-porous surfaces, like paints and plastics.

Graeme

[philipy]

I'd be a bit gun-shy as well, but I think it would be worth a try on a test piece.......

I hate to admit defeat, and although I often say I have, I usually end up going back to whatever it may be - as in the wheel lining of the F&B loco.

However in this case I think common sense should prevail. To do the complete rake of 4 coaches will require the word GUARD twice, FIRST twice, F&B twice, Co. Ry. twice, SECOND 4 times, THIRD 16 times. When you look at all of the tiny little bits at the undersides and ends of all those letters ( mostly 3.5mm high) being hand done, the chances of them looking anything like consistent and correct is vanishingly small - about like my sanity would be!

[GTB]

However in this case I think common sense should prevail.

You are talking to someone who once built two fifty wagon Victorian Railways steam era wheat trains in HO scale. Both rakes were hand lettered with a mapping pen and white ink, as there were no suitable waterslide decals available at the time. There were 22 pieces of lettering per wagon.

This metaphor is an old one - Q. How do you eat an elephant? A. One bite at a time.

There's another elephant in the room. I can't tell from the photos I have, but were these carriages also lined?

Common sense? That didn't prevail until I retired and changed to Fn3 scale. Maybe not even then......

Graeme

[philipy]

I can't tell from the photos I have, but were these carriages also lined?

No indication that they were lined on the photos that I have either. In fact, although the Composite had " F & B" and "Co.Ry." either side of the centre 1st Class door, there doesn't seem to be any indication of that lettering on the All Third or Guard/Third either ( unless you know any different?). So if they couldn't, or didn't, run to that expense, lining seems a bit expensive as well?

[GTB]

No indication that they were lined on the photos that I have either.

My curiosity was triggered, as I've noticed with early VR photos that workshop photos may show the lining and lettering, but it's rarely visible in photos taken of passenger trains out on the line. I wondered if the author of your book had made any comment about lining in the text, as the few F&R photos I found of trains out on the line had no lining or lettering visible.

Graeme

[philipy]

Graeme, there is no mention at all of lining of the carriages. In the book, there is some discussion/speculation as to whether the "F&B" and "Ry.Co." was on the Third class vehicles but the photo's are said to be "ambiguous" in this respect. On the assumption that he was looking at the originals ( or as close as still exists) it's probably safer to leave it off. It could always be added at a later date if anything turns up.
The carriages were repainted a couple of times during their lifetimes, so it's unlikely that lining would have survived that anyway. Since the F&B didn't have a painter on the staff presumably the painting would have been done by the fitters or perhaps even a local painter and decorator! The other thing is that the GWR built a couple of additional coaches for the F&B and there doesn't seem to have been any record of lining from them either.

[Paul_in_Ricky]

A bit late to this but....

The Washi tape is meant to be low tack and peelable,

Could you post details or a link to what washi material you use please ?

[Durley]

Here you go Paul

https://delightfulextras.co.uk/products ... Gt_UW0BesV

[Paul_in_Ricky]

Thanks for that, I'll order some to experiment with.

Odd web site, they don't seem to sell many different things, but if they've got the thing you want ....