Garden Railway Forum

Hi Tony

I did say 5 years and not 4, so you would need to be using 2010 price lists to do the comparison, we are not in 2016 yet and the 2016 price increases are not published as yet.

Also, some of those prices are indeed massive rises, especially when compared to inflation which has been next to nothing, or less if you take most saleries.

I stand by my statements, some of these have had disproportionate price hikes, just because they can, and that wasn't aimed at roundhouse, that was globally in this hobby, possibly more so with the chinese competition as they know they are being well received.

There is also the distinct the possibly that time is passing much faster than I am giving it credit for and what I think was 5 years is nearer to 10 or 15, isnt that when I say, back when I was a lad? I never said I was perfect or couldn't be wrong

-steves-:114595 wrote:I did say 5 years and not 4, so you would need to be using 2010 price lists to do the comparison, we are not in 2016 yet and the 2016 price increases are not published as yet.

I take your point about the dates but it was the closest I could do. No 2010 lists have been archived. Even if one had it would need to be from after the May 2010 general election which caused a rise in VAT from 17.5% to 20%.

From my point of view as somebody who is doing 16mm stuff as paid work, and as I said yesterday, I have seen massive increases in the cost of raw materials. Paint, metals and radio gear have all gone up about 25% in the last two years.

Roundhouse, Accucraft, Mamod, Regner, Pearse, Essel, Finescale, etc etc etc...
It really doesn't matter... as long as you look at the engine in question and like it, it really does not matter in the slightest who made it cause you're going to want it anyway.

I've had both of the big two's locos and still do have both and I have no bias for either of them. I run my bertie, victory and leek probably as much as I run my Caradoc, (and before I sold them to pay for wedding), leader and superior.
There are engines I'd like from both but like all things, life has other responsibilities holding one's wallet to ransom.

Back on Topic...
I'd like to see a Carrie, Gelert or something hackworth!

To add my two cents to the discussion, as someone who is looking to start in this hobby, I would really appreciate a lower-priced "generic" loco from Roundhouse. Perhaps something to fit between the "basic" and "classic" ranges. For me, there is a massive gap in the price range (£600 <-> £1200) that, if it were filled, could prove to be quite popular. I for one, would jump at the chance to own a British-built loco if it were available for around £800-£1000!

If you have not tried to build a live steam loco or kit then you cannot comment on pricing.  By the time you have added up labour, tools and materials you then understand the cost not to mention learning the skills or having to be trained in the first place.

Just to throw a bomb in the conversation, is it not ironic how people do not mind paying stupid amounts of money for let's say an Apple product.  Not only are they supporting a company that abuses Chinese labour but they are likely under the illusion that their iMac, Macbook or Air is superior to a PC when they have all used the same Intel processors since 2005/2006.

I think Roundhouse should build a 7/8ths 0-4-0 loco as well...

TonyW:114599 wrote: I take your point about the dates but it was the closest I could do. No 2010 lists have been archived. Even if one had it would need to be from after the May 2010 general election which caused a rise in VAT from 17.5% to 20%.

I still have a downloaded copy of the 2010 Roundhouse export price list. There was no change in Roundhouse's vat free prices between 2010 and 2011. The 2011 prices you show in your post are also valid for 2010, depending on when your thieving govt. upped the VAT.

Between 2010 and 2015 Roundhouse have increased their RRP ~5% for the basic series and 8-9% for the classic series models that have stayed in production over that period.

Having an inquiring mind, I pointed the Wayback Machine at the Accucraft UK RRP list.

A manual Ragleth was listed at 560 GBP in late 2010 and the 2015 shipment was listed at 795 GBP. Which is a 40% increase in 5 years.

"You pays your money and you takes your choice....."

Regards,
Graeme

ps. What has any of this to do with whatever Roundhouse will, or will not, introduce in 6 months time?

Another Basic Loco please (both Dealer and Personal hat on!)

The cost of metal laser cutting has gone down in recent years so that has probably offset increase in material cost.

Since I'm heading in the direction of 7/8ths I would love to see a basic freelance loco from Roundhouse in this scale. Mind you, I have already used up the loco budget for 2016 by ordering a Accucraft 7/8ths Bagnall.

HereticUK:114602 wrote:To add my two cents to the discussion, as someone who is looking to start in this hobby, I would really appreciate a lower-priced "generic" loco from Roundhouse. Perhaps something to fit between the "basic" and "classic" ranges. For me, there is a massive gap in the price range (£600 <-> £1200) that, if it were filled, could prove to be quite popular. I for one, would jump at the chance to own a British-built loco if it were available for around £800-£1000!

I am with this, something in the middle, not slip eccentric, but cheaper than the current classic range.

Failing that, I would like Sir Haydn from the Corris Railway, gorgeous little loco  ;) However I would want it with centre couplings / buffer , so I can hook it up to what I already have.

Back to locos...... and although not what i am modeling i have always like the look of some of the snail beach railway locos such as this one: https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=snail ... fK-AuvM%3A
I also agree a loco between the basic and classic range is surely worth doing

-steves-:114612 wrote:

HereticUK:114602 wrote:To add my two cents to the discussion, as someone who is looking to start in this hobby, I would really appreciate a lower-priced "generic" loco from Roundhouse. Perhaps something to fit between the "basic" and "classic" ranges. For me, there is a massive gap in the price range (£600 <-> £1200) that, if it were filled, could prove to be quite popular. I for one, would jump at the chance to own a British-built loco if it were available for around £800-£1000!

I am with this, something in the middle, not slip eccentric, but cheaper than the current classic range.

Accucraft already cater for this price range?

tom_tom_go:114617 wrote:

-steves-:114612 wrote:

HereticUK:114602 wrote:To add my two cents to the discussion, as someone who is looking to start in this hobby, I would really appreciate a lower-priced "generic" loco from Roundhouse. Perhaps something to fit between the "basic" and "classic" ranges. For me, there is a massive gap in the price range (£600 <-> £1200) that, if it were filled, could prove to be quite popular. I for one, would jump at the chance to own a British-built loco if it were available for around £800-£1000!

I am with this, something in the middle, not slip eccentric, but cheaper than the current classic range.

Accucraft already cater for this price range?

My mistake, this was asking for something for Roundhouse to do, not asking who already does this, but thanks, I did know that already.

Something like that could be done if they offered an updated "Bertie" with their special slanty cylinders and a hackworth valve gear. They could include the water glass, top-up valve and pressure gauge... basically all the improvements they offer, already installed. I think that would be a very desirable engine. In fact with a new cab front, a trailing axle and a "Millie" smokebox it could be made to look very much like the Talyllyn "Edward Thomas".

I'd save up for one... but it would still be a "generic" loco, and I'm not sure how many people still like those. I do though.

tom_tom_go:114617 wrote:

-steves-:114612 wrote:

HereticUK:114602 wrote:To add my two cents to the discussion, as someone who is looking to start in this hobby, I would really appreciate a lower-priced "generic" loco from Roundhouse. Perhaps something to fit between the "basic" and "classic" ranges. For me, there is a massive gap in the price range (£600 <-> £1200) that, if it were filled, could prove to be quite popular. I for one, would jump at the chance to own a British-built loco if it were available for around £800-£1000!

I am with this, something in the middle, not slip eccentric, but cheaper than the current classic range.

Accucraft already cater for this price range?

This is true. However, having the extra choice would not be a bad thing in my opinion.

Keith S:114628 wrote:Something like that could be done if they offered an updated "Bertie" with their special slanty cylinders and a hackworth valve gear. They could include the water glass, top-up valve and pressure gauge... basically all the improvements they offer, already installed.

You have just described a Roundhouse Classic Series loco...

I guess you're right Tom. Oh well. Maybe I'll buckle down and make my own someday.

Here's a side-note about cost that some might find interesting, when it comes to making your own loco.

I have some brass pipes of various diameters that I've been saving in case I ever want to build a coal-fired boiler-something that looks quite possible for me some day:

If I were to order the various components from Roundhouse that I don't feel I would be able to make, such as valve gear, wheels, axles, cranks, coupling and connecting rods, cylinders, boiler bushes, regulator, axle bushes, safety valve, pressure gauge, frame spacers, lubricator, smokebox: the cost of all these components comes to £420.76!!
-this is assuming I make my own boiler, bodywork, and frames!! (and leave off any decorative touches)

This is more than 800 Canadian dollars- which is, with the better exchange rate of four years ago,  about what I paid for my "Billy" kits as well as a tender!

Considering this, it's difficult to understand what value Roundhouse does put on their own labour- if I bought a boiler along with all the above, it would cost far more than a basic series locomotive- and I still wouldn't have a frame, gas tank, burner, or bodywork!

I just find that interesting- unless you are a pretty good machinist, building your own certainly won't cost much less. Seems to me like the least expensive option might actually be to just buy one already built!

Don't go to Roundhouse for a boiler, go to Cheddar. There boilers are completely custom made and can also be made to fit the Roundhouse stuff, and they're much cheaper...
We've now standardised Cheddar boilers for all our homebuilt locomotives.
Another useful company is Forest Classics. They supply gas tanks to customer spec. And can supply burners ECT.

JMORG i find that quite interesting about what you said about cheddar and forest classic, have you got any examples of locos using there components?
cheers
Joe

To stay on topic...
I would like to see a Decauville type 8.

JMORG i find that quite interesting about what you said about cheddar and forest classic, have you got any examples of locos using there components?
cheers
Joe

Cheddar makes boilers for PPS (currently). Their main market is the bigger scales such as 5".
http://www.cheddarvalleysteam.co.uk/
They also made boilers for the old Cheddar locomotives.

Forest Classics produce literally anything to do with the plumbing and also spend time uprating Mamod stuff. They also make ceramic burners if you need the extra heat!
http://www.forest-classics.co.uk/
Both companies make bespoke parts if you ask for them and provide a drawing of what you want.
My father gets all of his boilers made by Cheddar now for the Garratts as they need the cross-tubed flue to produce enough steam for the cylinders. My boiler for Moel Tryfan is basically a Roundhouse Lady Anne boiler and it cost £200 instead of £400!
No brainer really...