Thomas Telford Locomotive - Take Two

mikewakefielduk@btinterne · Post by **mikewakefielduk@btinterne** » Sat Mar 09, 2013 2:00 pm

At the last minute my plans changed and I was able to visit the Telford Garden Railway Market this morning.

Mamod had a table there supervised by David Terry. Along with boxes of spares the locos he had brought with him were the Mk11, the Diamond Jubilee Saddle Tank and the Brunel - no sign of the Thomas Telford.

I got talking to him first about the gas burners and then the state of the TT.

He suggested I contact Peter Johnson next week to find out by how much the burner's venturi should be drilled out. I'll do that and post the results on the Ceramic Burner thread.

As far as the TT goes he said he's having a new boiler made with more pipes underneath to take heat from the gas flame. He also said he felt the loco needed 11mm diameter cylinders, which contradicts what Peter Johnson told me on Monday. He didn't say why but maybe they've found the loco still won't run slowly enough and so needs the bigger 11mm cylinders. There was also some talk of putting tubes through into the boiler itself, which I presumed to mean a way of increasing the heating surface actually in contact with the water.

My thoughts with the above is things have really not progressed anything like as far as I'd been led to believe. There's clearly still issues with the amount of steam being produced despite having the gas burner being twice as more effective than before. Furthermore reverting to 11mm cylinders is surely where we were before Christmas with not being able to get O rings of the exact size.

Will they have a TT ready for the Peterborough Show? I really don't know

dougrail · Post by **dougrail** » Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:10 pm

This is strange yet sad news indeed. I do hope that they can sort it out.

mikewakefielduk@btinterne · Post by **mikewakefielduk@btinterne** » Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:40 am

I stumbled across this firm on the web:

http://bowande.en.ec21.com/Brass_Train_ ... 02430.html#

I few tentative enquiries and yes, they will sell single locos for a price of about £300 (plus VAT and Custom Duty), bulk orders for quite a bit less.

OK, its 45mm gauge and not 32mm, and who knows what the build quality is like (but Mamod's hardly great), but it will only take one person with a bit of cash and a decent website to import them here and sell them for around the £400 mark. No pop rivets and internally gas fired.

Mike

Superbiker_uk · Post by **Superbiker_uk** » Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:16 am

These Porter loco's have been discussed over on TUMAOSF on a few threads including this one. They were available on ebay some time ago.

http://modelsteam.myfreeforum.org/about38193.html

There is some video of it here:

http://modelsteam.myfreeforum.org/about57704.html

Wuhu WWW http://www.bowande.cn/product/eindex.asp

Chris Cairns · Post by **Chris Cairns** » Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:12 pm

I think the previous sales say it all - it did not last very long, and the discussion that Peter has highlighted proves it did not run well 'out of the box'.

Plus it is 45mm and an American style locomotive - does not fit in with my 32mm British railway.

Chris Cairns,

dougrail · Post by **dougrail** » Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:55 pm

I would be wary of this as well given I recall someone buying one and it steaming rather poorly due to the chimney and draughting?

Plus oscillators are more fun.

I'm hoping tat Mamod can sort out the TT as it looked a grand loco on the two occasions I saw it.

Chris Cairns · Post by **Chris Cairns** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:06 am

Surfing the net I found some interesting photos on Chasteam's website.

Chas is well known for misrepresenting items (Harry the Rocket available in 'O' gauge, MSS rolling stock being sold as original unused Mamod old stock, etc.) so it is interesting to see the price had gone up to £490 including the 11mm diameter cylinders, and these are the only photos I've seen with a water top-up valve fitted and those plastic Mamod white decals.

Chris Cairns.

dougrail · Post by **dougrail** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:38 pm

await info further from Mamod Id say personally...

mikewakefielduk@btinterne · Post by **mikewakefielduk@btinterne** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:10 pm

I had to phone Mamod this morning (I need a replacement stud for my Brunel cylinder assembly) and while doing so asked about the Telford progress. David replied that they were starting again from the ground up, but didn't say any more either on timescales or with more details.

I mentioned the Chasteam site's advert for the Telford and was told it will only be sold directly by Mamod themslves, either from their own website or by mail order. I reckon Chasteam is just doing what they're (in)famous for and flying a kite to see who bites. I looked on their site just now and see they're still advertising the William.

Mike

Chris Cairns · Post by **Chris Cairns** » Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:22 am

see they're still advertising the William.

Check out the Forest Classics Mamod Trains pages. Still show the Mark I, William II & William sets but when you click 'Add to Cart' they say it is currently not available. Strangely the same applies to the Mark II & Mark II sets.

Chris Cairns.

mikewakefielduk@btinterne · Post by **mikewakefielduk@btinterne** » Fri Apr 12, 2013 8:27 pm

I spoke to David at Mamod this morning (to say thanks for sending a replacement cylinder stud for my Brunel) and asked for more details re. what they're doing with the Telford. He said they were doing a complete redesign of the cylinders and valves based on what they'd learned from another loco (presumably a Millie?). Unfortunately, once they had a working redesign they'd still have to manufacture it, so it will be "some months" away. Success will be posted online, presumably on their website and the video clips on Youtube.

He went on to say that they'd also learned a lot in the meantime especially with the improved ceramic burner performance.

Mike

Lner fan Sam · Post by **Lner fan Sam** » Fri Apr 12, 2013 8:34 pm

Looks like Peterbrough is a miss them....

Spule 4 · Post by **Spule 4** » Fri Apr 12, 2013 9:49 pm

Encouraging that they are going back to work out problems and interested in improvement!

dougrail · Post by **dougrail** » Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:20 pm

Gives me more time to save up

Chris Cairns · Post by **Chris Cairns** » Sat Apr 13, 2013 2:22 am

Ouch, that is going to hurt financially with all the pre-production manufacturing that was completed.

I hope that they do get somewhere with the redesign, but sadly I feel it will also affect the price in an upwards direction.

Remember this -

Chris Cairns Nov 29 2012 wrote:We can only hope that the problems with the burners & cylinders from the William family will have been suitably overcome with the Thomas Telford.

Chris Cairns.

steamie1 · Post by **steamie1** » Sat Apr 13, 2013 10:29 am

I'm nerveous as the Rounhouse base range are realy good so the price HAS to be a chunk lower to save direct comparison . I firmly believe the oscillators are a niche market and variation in body and colour could see MSS running as the Mamod Mk2 is good now. Variation to body colour etc does not cost so much in time. Still I can sit with my coffee and pontificate or suggest BUT it's not my business on the line. All I can say is we look with interest, we hope the best, and good luck to Mamod and all who sail within her...I shall be saying a little prayer for all the employees tonight. Amen.

Sir Clothem Cap · Post by **Sir Clothem Cap** » Sat Apr 13, 2013 11:32 am

Mamod design Has come on in huge leaps lately, I never brought a william as the controls made it look like a big toy (ok they are but thats not the point) The mk1 as its now known had the look of a real loco and the mk2 has proved they listen to critisism and have improved.

Mamod has a real chance to show themselves as a working Model maker with the Telford and I am looking forward to a great product from a great british company.

Chris Cairns · Post by **Chris Cairns** » Sat Apr 13, 2013 1:25 pm

I think that is part of the problem, are these model steam engines or toy steam engines? Certainly the old Mamod SL was designed under the toy steam regulations, and a lot of people still associate the name Mamod with toy steam engines.

Hornby had a similar problem when they introduced the OO Live Steam range. A lot of the sets were bought for father and son, but unlike the 12v range where you plugged it in and off it went, the Live Steam required a lot more understanding and control (their video made it look so easy but in fact it was a cheat - it was not live steam being demonstrated in the video). Had they sold the Live Steam range as a specialist product under one of their other company names, like Bassett-Lowke, it probably would have been aimed at the right market and sold better. Sadly the range was liquidated and is probably unlikely to return - at least they are still servicing the locomotives at very reasonable costs, but for how long?

As I understand it the current Mamod had their original locomotive (Golden Jubilee) designed externally. However there was problems with the rotary corliss type valve, and so a piston valve was substituted (not sure who designed that, but another of my questions for Peterborough). However with the exception of the Brunel, which has a nice flywheel to overcome the stiffness that these piston valve cylinders seem to suffer from, none of the other piston valve locomotives were successful (Golden Jubilee, William & William II).

With the introduction of an oscillating cylinder locomotive at an introductory price that undercut the competing MSS locomotive, the Mamod Train was a success and that chassis has gone on to give us the Mark II & Diamond Jubilee Saddle tank. But are we aware of how it was designed?

Thanks to the fact that Google Images caches images that are subsequently deleted, I have recently found the answer.

So a William boiler with the vertical mounted regulator, but look closely at the chassis - those are MSS wheels and MSS cylinders, and there is no reverser valve.

Sadly I have suffered a frustrating experience with my Mamod piston valve locomotives, but unlike others have persevered with it taking nearly 6 years to get my William running satisfactorily, but my William II & Brunel still need more work.

Whilst I'm all for buying British if a suitably priced Roundhouse valve locomotive comes up at Peterborough then I'm sold.

Chris Cairns.

mikewakefielduk@btinterne · Post by **mikewakefielduk@btinterne** » Sat Apr 13, 2013 4:23 pm

that is going to hurt financially with all the pre-production manufacturing that was completed

I suspect the existing stockpile of Telford cylinders will be re-assigned to various stationary engines and the like.

but sadly I feel it will also affect the price in an upwards direction

I think it might depend on how much of the Millie type valve gear they end up with. I understand Roundhouse, even on their Basic series, fit their locos with proper slide valves rather than piston valves. If Mamod do the same they'll probably be more complicated to manufacture and so more expensive.

If they do put up the price of the Telford they'll be coming in at around the same price point as Regner's Easy Line series of locos which, although single oscillating cylinder, are beautifully engineered with not a pop rivet anywhere.

Definitely something to ask while at Peterborough. I only wish I could attend.

Mike

Lner fan Sam · Post by **Lner fan Sam** » Sat Apr 13, 2013 8:40 pm

They seemed to be well on track for a Peterbrough release though, I want to see mamod to do well and with all the commitment they seem to be putting in to this loco I think it can be a success.

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Thomas Telford Locomotive - Take Two

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Why Mamod need to up their game

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